Enchanted Items for Non-Spellcasters...

[Pbartender]

"The strength of an enchanted item may be reduced by one to make it usable by someone other than the caster, such as a magically armored coat that anyone can wear."  YS279.

Normally, a non-spellcaster can only use an enchanted item or potion, if a wizard makes it and loans it to them (thereby temporarily sacrificing the relevant item slots until its given back).

Now, presuming I wanted to allow a non-spellcaster to acquire and use a magic item on a fairly permanent basis, what sort of (extra?) cost would you impose...  If they gained it through a stunt?  If they gained it by purchasing it with a Resources roll?

Thoughts?

[ARedthorn]

I'd be curious to know the boards' ruling as well- I had a wizard who decided her best friend (a man of God type) was just too squishy, and made him an armored jacket. In the end, after being rather unsatisfied with him having an item that depended on her stats, I had him take it as a weak IoP (with only Inhuman Toughness, and nothing else).

[Rechan]

Yeah I'd make them take refresh for it.

[KOFFEYKID]

The easiest way to do this is Item of power, but not like you are thinking: Item of Power +2 that gives Ritual (Crafting) and something else (like inhuman toughness).

Though this can easily become abusable.

[gojj]

I'd be curious to know the boards' ruling as well- I had a wizard who decided her best friend (a man of God type) was just too squishy, and made him an armored jacket. In the end, after being rather unsatisfied with him having an item that depended on her stats, I had him take it as a weak IoP (with only Inhuman Toughness, and nothing else).

I wouldn't charge the man of god any refresh whatsoever, in my opinion it comes out of the wizard's refresh. Even though she is not carrying the enchanted item herself, it is still in use and therefore still costs her an enchanted item slot. I see no reason to bring Items of Power into the equation, those are something else entirely.

[Haru]

I've got a character in my campaign who does exactly this. He took refinement for the enchanted item slots and the item strength is determined by contacts rather than lore. You could change this to burglary for a thief or resources for a collector, there are lots of possibilities.

If the use of magic is part of the characters concept, the character is no longer a pure mortal, even if the magic comes from stolen/bought/borrowed items.
Loaning an item every now and then however should not fall under this, but taking up the enchanted item slots of another character permanently is kind of unfair. If the character takes refinement for himself but gets his items from the wizard, that would only be a narrative factor, the mechanics would be shifted to the user, the crafting strength of the wizard would no longer factor in.

[Sanctaphrax]

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26219.msg1116446.html#msg1116446

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26610.msg1133920.html#msg1133920

[Taran]

I wouldn't charge the man of god any refresh whatsoever, in my opinion it comes out of the wizard's refresh. Even though she is not carrying the enchanted item herself, it is still in use and therefore still costs her an enchanted item slot. I see no reason to bring Items of Power into the equation, those are something else entirely.

I agree with this.  If one player is willing to give up an enchantment slot to another player, then what's the problem?  It's still the same amount of refresh spread amongst all the PC's.

Also, there's nothing "unfair" about someone using their refresh to help a fellow PC.  Some Characters do nothing but buff their allies.  It's up to the player to decide what they want with their powers.

The only argument I see against this is when you "slay the enemy wizard" and he's got a bunch of items that are usable by others.  DFRPG has a aweful lack of "treasure" anyways.  Why not throw the party a bone every once in a while.

[Pbartender]

The easiest way to do this is Item of power, but not like you are thinking: Item of Power +2 that gives Ritual (Crafting) and something else (like inhuman toughness).

Right, but but Items of Power come with baggage that I'm trying to avoid.  Notably...  The fact that they can't be destroyed, and the fact that they can't be as easily loaned to someone else.  Also, IoPs tend to be considerably more powerful than the typical Enchanted Item or Potion.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26219.msg1116446.html#msg1116446

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26610.msg1133920.html#msg1133920

Oooo...  Good stuff there.  That gives me some ideas.  Here's what I'm aiming for, I think:

• As the linked thread says, I don't want "Ye Olde Magic Shoppe".  I don't want this turning into the FATE equivalent of AD&D.
• I would like the whole spiel to be activated by a stunt.
• I would like it to be either a mortal stunt, or to mitigate the loss of the mortal refresh bonus in a manner similar to Items of Power.
• I would like the stunt to require an Aspect related to the source of items.
• I would like the stunt to grant a limited number of item slots -- I think 4 enchanted item slots would be appropriate.
• I would like the character to be making Contacting and/or Resources checks to gain an item and/or to determine its power.
• I would like it to take some time to acquire the items.
• I would like acquired enchanted items to be required to have the -1 "usable by someone other than the caster" penalty to strength.
• I would like the purchase of enchanted items and potions to incur an Oath-like debt toward the seller.

How's that look for a start?

[gojj]

I don't think a Pure Mortal would be able to use Enchanted Items, they wouldn't know how. I haven't read all of the Dresden books yet so if there is an example of a Pure Mortal using one than I shall stand corrected, but I think the whole point of the two bonus refresh is to help mitigate the fact that they have no access to anything supernatural. Inventing a stunt as a loophole seems to be going against the spirit of what the Pure Mortal template is supposed to be, even if it doesn't break any rules.

Now if a Minor Talent, True Believer, etc. wants to get their hands on some Enchanted Items, then yes I like the idea of creating a stunt for that, but I just don't like the idea of mortals throwing around magic and still keeping their two refresh bonus, even if you do make the character owe debts and all sorts of story stuff.

[wyvern]

In the game I'm currently running, one of the PCs - a mortal human - got taught how to maintain enchanted items.  In terms of game mechanics, we decided to treat this as a single point of refinement, granting four enchanted item slots; picking this up also cost the character her pure mortal refresh bonus.  However, the character can't actually make enchanted items - instead being limited to those provided by other PCs & NPCs.  We decided that - based on the example of the warden swords - she could use enchanted items made specifically for her at the full lore rating of whoever did the crafting, rather than having to user her own (much lower) lore skill.  Which, given that it cost her the pure mortal bonus, seemed eminently fair.  (Had the character been a were-critter, or some other non-caster supernatural template, we might have ruled differently.)

[gojj]

This seems fair to me, so essentially she is now a Minor Talent (game mechanic wise).

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't think using enchanted items necessarily requires any skill. After all, Harry's duster is an EI and it requires no action to use whatsoever.

Maintaining them is another matter.

I think the easiest and least problematic way to handle this would be a stunt giving a "buying enchanted items" trapping to either Resources or Contacts. The difficulty to acquire a given item would be set by the GM.

It's handwavey, but oh well. Taken with an appropriate aspect, it'd satisfy most of Pbartender's conditions.

[gojj]

I like the stunt about being able to use enchanted items, but I think that if someone wants a mortal to use enchanted items, they should not receive the two refresh bonus. It just seems unfair to me that a mortal could (theoretically) throw around magic nearly as effectively as a Focused Practitioner, but at half the power cost and still be up a point thanks to the bonus.

[Sanctaphrax]

My proposal makes mortal access to enchanted items exactly as powerful and easy as the GM feels inclined to make it at any given time. I don't see a need to remove the mortal bonus, given that.