Weapon ratings for flashbangs and tear gas

[Richard_Chilton]

It's in the "baseball bat / Sword / baton" range, Weapon 2 seems like a good call.

Richard

[Sanctaphrax]

2-3. It's a two-handed weapon, but one that was not really intended as a weapon.

I'd probably make it weapon 3, but it's a bit of a toss-up.

[admiralducksauce]

I'd give it Weapon:3 as well, but make Weapons restricted by Might because it's heavy and clumsy and not meant as a weapon.  Or you could say it has the Aspect "Sledgehammer" and compel the wielder to miss for the same reasons.  You can do it a couple different ways, but I like the restriction method.  It allows you to use it as a viable weapon if you actually ARE really strong, which is not exactly a rare situation in DFRPG.

[ARedthorn]

What he said. A 20lb sledge is a bit heftier than a baseball bat, and 2-handed as a given (where a baseball bat can be swung one-handed, just not as well)... so I'd go 3.
Having it restricted by Might is a good idea though... unless you're hella beefy or toting some inhuman or better strength... it's gonna be a tough one to swing well.

[Richard_Chilton]

Looking at the weapon's list, it does list 2 handed weapons as W:3 - but while it's 2 handed I don't think a 20lb sledge is designed as weapon.  I just have a hard time seeing a  20 lbs sledge being better at hurting people than a sword or being up there with a shotgun.

Giving it some thought, calling the 20 lbs sledge hammer W:2 could reflect how it isn't balanced for use as a weapon - incorporating the improvised nature without adding aspects.  Yes, there were warhammers, but they were designed to be used as weapons (with attention paid to balance).  A 2 handed warhammer - that I could see as W:3.

Richard

[Tedronai]

Looking at the weapon's list, it does list 2 handed weapons as W:3 - but while it's 2 handed I don't think a 20lb sledge is designed as weapon.  I just have a hard time seeing a  20 lbs sledge being better at hurting people than a sword or being up there with a shotgun.

Giving it some thought, calling the 20 lbs sledge hammer W:2 could reflect how it isn't balanced for use as a weapon - incorporating the improvised nature without adding aspects.  Yes, there were warhammers, but they were designed to be used as weapons (with attention paid to balance).  A 2 handed warhammer - that I could see as W:3.

Richard

And a baseball bat really isn't quite so damaging as a good one-handed sword, but they have the same rating.
The system just isn't so granular as that.
A 20lb sledge, though, is dramatically more damaging than a baseball bat, I assure you, and as such, should have a higher rating.

[HumAnnoyd]

Looking at the weapon's list, it does list 2 handed weapons as W:3 - but while it's 2 handed I don't think a 20lb sledge is designed as weapon.  I just have a hard time seeing a  20 lbs sledge being better at hurting people than a sword or being up there with a shotgun.

Giving it some thought, calling the 20 lbs sledge hammer W:2 could reflect how it isn't balanced for use as a weapon - incorporating the improvised nature without adding aspects.  Yes, there were warhammers, but they were designed to be used as weapons (with attention paid to balance).  A 2 handed warhammer - that I could see as W:3.

Richard

This is pretty much how I felt about it but I must admit I didn't express it as elegantly during the session.  Thanks.

[HumAnnoyd]

A 20lb sledge, though, is dramatically more damaging than a baseball bat, I assure you, and as such, should have a higher rating.

But do you feel it should have the same damage rating as a claymore or a maul?  I really don't feel it should be that high for the reasons stated above. 

[Richard_Chilton]

And a baseball bat really isn't quite so damaging as a good one-handed sword, but they have the same rating.
The system just isn't so granular as that.
A 20lb sledge, though, is dramatically more damaging than a baseball bat, I assure you, and as such, should have a higher rating.

But is it dramatically more damaging than a good sword? I'd say no.

Is it up there with a 2 handed warhammer? I'd say no, because a sledge lacks the balance of a warhammer.

While it has more mass than baseball bat, the bat is easier to swing so you can use it more effectively. 

Richard

[admiralducksauce]

I've just put numbers on flashbangs for my campaign:
It is targeted with weapons, dodged with athletics, as any other attack. If the attack connects, it becomes a block:5 on the target, that reduces by 1 every exchange. That way it becomes more likely for the target to beat the block, but it is not too weak either.

I just wanted to say that although this implementation got buried under the quibbling over maneuvers and special weapons and flashbang stress, it's an elegant solution and if I need tear gas or flashbangs I'm using this idea.  Thanks Haru!

[Tedronai]

Is it up there with a 2 handed warhammer? I'd say no, because a sledge lacks the balance of a warhammer.

And a baseball bat lacks the momentum-focusing edge of a sword.  They still have the same rating.


But as admiralducksauce pointed out, this is getting rather off topic.

Haru's suggestion seems reasonable, though I might suggest that tear gas would disperse rather more slowly than that so long as the character remains in the vapour cloud.

[ARedthorn]

Tear gas is wicked finicky though... I'd let a player make an assessment or declaration, then tag it to make it go away early (because the building's AC is on, or there's a stiff breeze).

[Silverblaze]

Sorta related:

Had a friend who had his tear ducts burned prior to tear gas training in boot camp.  Said it still sucked bad, but wasn't as dehabilitating.

Characters who had bad accidents in history with an aspect to back it up or proper declaration could work too.

Also I made a spell once similar to a flash bang grenade.  It created two sticky aspects blind and deaf...I had to tag them with fate points but they were still there on a room once I cast the spell on those inside.  Could work similarly?

[Tedronai]

Sticky aspects still come with one free tag, they just happen to stick around even after that tag is expended.

[Silverblaze]

Guess I wasted a few fate points.