Mass Combat: An Idea

[fantazero]

So in Ren's Dresden Game (which I'm a part of) We had the "problem" of having a bunch of NPCs fighting each other, and in some cases this fighting didn't involve PCs.
So one solution we came up with was to just basically say "Meh" and skip over or have the GM just tell us what happened. (Also Ren was juggling like 50 Characters and doing a damn fine job)
I came up with a Slightly different idea at work today.
Why not make the "Armys" or "Groups" Player Characters? or Stat them as such

So for Example, you have a Platoon of WW2 American Army Soldiers fighting WW2 Nazi Germany Infantry.

Character Name US Army
High Concept: Platoon of Grunts
Trouble: War is Hell
Other Aspects:
Why we Fight
Storm the Beaches
Charge!
Be all you can be (ugh)
Stunts
Mortar Strike: Fire Mortar at enemy attack 2 only let roll 3 dice on movement.
Pin Down: Enemy cant move for a round
Retreat! Add 1 to roll when retreating

Skills
+5 Guns +4 athletics +3 Weapons +2 Fists +1 Stealth

You could give the them a refresh based on the Number of people who are supposed to be in the group So platoons like what? 15 people? 15 Refresh.


This is just a rough idea. Any thoughts?

[Sanctaphrax]

The Mortar Strike stunt is unclear to me.

The unit needs more stress boxes.

And it should do more damage to more people.

And it needs to be vulnerable to area attacks.

And it has too many FP.

Have you considered giving the unit toughness powers?

[fantazero]

The Mortar Strike stunt is unclear to me.

The unit needs more stress boxes.

And it should do more damage to more people.

And it needs to be vulnerable to area attacks.

And it has too many FP.

Have you considered giving the unit toughness powers?

The nitty gritty isnt that important to me, but yeah I agree with all your points.

But do you like the "Idea" of it.

I had a similar idea where you could use this "army of people" and have PCs also help them fight another Army by using the PC as a tagable aspect (ex "Wizard on our side" or "Werewolf Blitzkrieg")

Also an idea for Toughness would be you could take consequences or agree to lose units thus decreasing FP or something.

This idea only really works in BIG battles I admit

[EdgeOfDreams]

Spirit of the Century (another FATE-based game) actually has system where groups of unnamed, weak enemies can be treated as one enemy.  Say there's 10 ninjas attacking you.  You might assign them a rating of Fair (+2) and group them into two groups of 5.  Each of those groups would get something like +2 bonus for the size of the group, so they'd be attacking and defending at Great (+4).  Now your 10 enemies, each of which would be too weak to be a threat normally has become two much more powerful foes, yet you still keep the flavor of being swarmed by a large party of ninjas.  You can then decrease the size of each group as it takes stress or consequences to represent individuals getting taken out.

For more details, go look up the Spirit of the Century SRD, I know it's online somewhere.

[fantazero]

Spirit of the Century (another FATE-based game) actually has system where groups of unnamed, weak enemies can be treated as one enemy.  Say there's 10 ninjas attacking you.  You might assign them a rating of Fair (+2) and group them into two groups of 5.  Each of those groups would get something like +2 bonus for the size of the group, so they'd be attacking and defending at Great (+4).  Now your 10 enemies, each of which would be too weak to be a threat normally has become two much more powerful foes, yet you still keep the flavor of being swarmed by a large party of ninjas.  You can then decrease the size of each group as it takes stress or consequences to represent individuals getting taken out.

For more details, go look up the Spirit of the Century SRD, I know it's online somewhere.

Damn, here I was thinking I was clever. Still good to know

[admiralducksauce]

I think both Starblazer Adventures and Diaspora use this idea in their mass combat, where a unit of warriors is treated like a single character.  I'm all for it, and I'd use the idea if I had to run a mass combat where the outcome was in doubt, or possibly where the PCs were the generals or at least had command of a contingent within the battle.

[Pbartender]

Damn, here I was thinking I was clever. Still good to know

SotC's minions rules can be found here.

In summary, minions are given two stats: quantity and quality.

Quality simply determines the minions' base skill in a single type of conflict -- physical, social or mental -- and the amount of stress they can take.  Minions can be Average (+1), Fair (+2) or Good (+3) in their chosen conflict type.  Average gets 1 stress box, Fair two, and Good three.

Quantity is just the number of minions in each group.  Minions get an additional bonus to actions and reactions based on their number...  2 to 3 minions: +1, 4 to 6: +2, 7 to 9: +3, and 10 or more: +4.

Stress boxes per for each minion, and all stress should go to a single minion, before moving on to the next (treat the stress boxes like hit points).  For example, dealing 5 stress to a group of Fair minions (two stress boxes each) would take out two minions completely and then deal one stress to a third.

For larger groups (like entire armies or an global corporation) or highly skilled groups (like a black ops team) creating a character-like stat block might work better.  I've considered using stat blocks in a similar way for certain types of vehicles in certain types of genres...  The spaceship Serenity, for example, could have its own stats block with stunts and aspects, if Firefly was a FATE-based game.

[Sanctaphrax]

Yeah, I like the idea well enough.

It's not perfect, but I can't think of anything better.

[Lanir]

One idea I remember from the Legend of the Five Rings mass battle system (the version where it had it's own system, not the d20 thing) was having a general roll to see what happened in really big battles. These wouldn't be like 10 ninjas or something, these really were army on army battles that your characters were stuck in the middle of.

It's been years since I used this but as I recall you randomly rolled the die to see what happened around the characters and compared it to a chart. Front line or otherwise more dangerous areas had modifiers to make worse things happen to you and vice versa for being in a more protected rearward area. The consequences were things like varying amounts of damage which weren't huge but could add up quickly, facing off against a noteworthy foe (couple rounds of normal combat, not a death match), and I think on the more pleasant end there were opportunities to push the enemy and gain an advantage in the battle. Think that hurts their morale and really good results for you do more damage to their morale, eventually routing them.

I think there were rules for being a general as well but as my group never had a reason to use those I'm not certain what they were. I think it'd work if you ran it as a modifier on the same chart you're rolling results on for the PCs.

If this sounds interesting to anyone I could probably whip up an example of this kind of system for DFRPG but it would take a bit of typing and probably a week or two to get something worth looking at. Not certan how much it would get used. The novels have two battles that would be large enough to use something like this for but they're part of epic, world altering events. I'm not sure things like that would pop up very often in normal gameplay.

[Masurao]

One idea I remember from the Legend of the Five Rings mass battle system (the version where it had it's own system, not the d20 thing) was having a general roll to see what happened in really big battles. These wouldn't be like 10 ninjas or something, these really were army on army battles that your characters were stuck in the middle of.

It's been years since I used this but as I recall you randomly rolled the die to see what happened around the characters and compared it to a chart. Front line or otherwise more dangerous areas had modifiers to make worse things happen to you and vice versa for being in a more protected rearward area. The consequences were things like varying amounts of damage which weren't huge but could add up quickly, facing off against a noteworthy foe (couple rounds of normal combat, not a death match), and I think on the more pleasant end there were opportunities to push the enemy and gain an advantage in the battle. Think that hurts their morale and really good results for you do more damage to their morale, eventually routing them.

I think there were rules for being a general as well but as my group never had a reason to use those I'm not certain what they were. I think it'd work if you ran it as a modifier on the same chart you're rolling results on for the PCs.

If this sounds interesting to anyone I could probably whip up an example of this kind of system for DFRPG but it would take a bit of typing and probably a week or two to get something worth looking at. Not certan how much it would get used. The novels have two battles that would be large enough to use something like this for but they're part of epic, world altering events. I'm not sure things like that would pop up very often in normal gameplay.

You remembered the basics pretty well, actually! If peeps are interested, I can peek in my LFR books and put more detailed info here.

[Pbartender]

Considering the nature of the Dresden-Ghostbusters crossover game I'm planning...  I'm thinking this might also be a neat idea for statting up organizations.

My players could effectively use "Ghostbusters International" as an extra character, of sorts.

[Radijs]

The rules for mooks or minions weren't included in DFRPG but I think they should be able to work without problem. Tack on powers and stunts as needed.

You want an army of flying baboon monkeys, mooks.

[fantazero]

Considering the nature of the Dresden-Ghostbusters crossover game I'm planning...  I'm thinking this might also be a neat idea for statting up organizations.

My players could effectively use "Ghostbusters International" as an extra character, of sorts.

I for one would love to see the Character Sheet for the marshmellow man.

But basically you have like 10 Random Ghostbusters Cannon Fodder fighting 20 Slimers and dont want to spend an hour rolling, I think it would be a good idea.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd be willing to try statting the marshmallow man.

Just remind me what he does. It's been a while since I saw the movie. Is he just a generic huge bruiser?

And how big is he anyway? Hulking Size or Titanic?

[fantazero]

I'd be willing to try statting the marshmallow man.

Just remind me what he does. It's been a while since I saw the movie. Is he just a generic huge bruiser?

And how big is he anyway? Hulking Size or Titanic?

Pretty Big

Can destroy buildings, cars ect
Could absorb Small Arms I assume
They killed him by Crossing the Streams. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOF0FpKiYk&feature=related