Solutions to nerf Fly

[Sanctaphrax]

Throw it.

Weapons is good for ranged attacks too.

The real problem is for the guy using Fists. He'll have to rely on Declarations and maneuvers to have a chance. Either that, or he can get indoors.

It sucks for the melee guy, but that's kinda the point. Incite Emotion sucks for the guy with Superb Athletics and Mediocre Discipline. You just have to make sure that it doesn't suck for him more than the refresh cost indicates it should.

[Discipol]

don't get me started on incite emotion.

statistically, how many npcs DO NOT fly?

[polkaneverdies]

It doesn't matter how many npcs don't fly. What matters is how many npcs planned their entire offensive strategy around being close enough to shake the guys hand. The answer is only the extremely short sighted ones.

[gojj]

don't get me started on incite emotion.

statistically, how many npcs DO NOT fly?

Nearly all I think, Were-forms, some Fae, and Black Court are the only ones that come to mind. But like others have said before me, if there's a PC with flight in the group the GM just needs to throw a flying NPC into the next encounter. Maybe a Wyern is on the loose, or a gang of Were-Hawks are terrorizing a town Hitchcock style.

[Discipol]

Tell that to all the ogres and trolls that want to eat your face.

[devonapple]

Here take this +100 Vorpal Sword. Now melee the flying archer to death.

I might request to make a Might Maneuver to create the Aspect "Swordthrow" and invoke it to allow me to throw my sword a few zones. GM can either assign a high DC, or insist that to use it, I need a Fate Point.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Too many good ways have been presented to deal with flying characters to warrant a nerf unless your entire campaign is going to be played in empty fields.  Even then, any magic using type isn't going to be at a noteworthy disadvantage.  Remind them about gravity and let them have fly at -1.

[sinker]

To be honest there are other FATE games in which flight costs 2 refresh. I think that the reason it costs less is because the creators didn't see much tactical movement in their games (since the zone sort of discourages that kind of movement and allows the maneuver to take that responsibility). If you see more tactical movement in your games then feel free to increase the cost, but I really wouldn't increase it more than 1 refresh.

Personally I'd just be inclined to plan my games more around that kind of combat as suggested earlier. 3D combat is incredibly fun when it's done right. I was in a Jovian Chronicles game once and we did a combat in zero gravity where we spent much of our time jumping off of objects and each other (and particularly off of the one guy who chose not to pick up zero-g movement, and spent much of the combat flailing comically).

[Masurao]

I think you're making more of a problem out of this than necessary.

One simple thing: if the creature has actual wings, then it still needs room to use them. Alleys are out of the question in most cases. Please note that the power actually says:

"You have wings of some sort—
gossamer as a faerie, leathery and batlike as a
demon—enabling you to fly."

You want flight without wings? Pay extra, no doubt in my mind about that. You use a jet pack? Good luck maneuvering without constant skill checks to keep the thrust at a certain level in cramped spaces. (Imagine Iron Man in the movie, trying to get that right, but without all the fancy computer tech)

Also, if you're a flying target, without super-speed, expect grenades and rockets to become large troubles. If you are a creature with supernatural speeds, then I'd use nets against them. As was said before, your enemies learn, just as much as you do. Any advantage can be cancelled out. They expect you to take fligt? Expect them to snipe a bullet into your wings/equipment/head before you take off.

Don't forget how birds get the ability to fly: they have very ligt bone structures. A human, with our current physique and weight would need a wingspan of some 12 meters/36 feet to get airborne (if I remember correctly). I know this game is about fantasy, but you could ask a human-like player with wings to take an appropriate aspect. "Screw you guys! I'm not skinny, I'm hollow-boned!"

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh. This game almost never makes cosmetic stuff like having or not having wings matter. Human Guise is free for a reason.

PS: If you have to give people with a given power some kind of drawback not mentioned in the power's effects, it probably means that the power is overpowered.

[mstorer3772]

It seems like a lot of the objections to flight involve super-badass-melee critter being rendered wholly ineffective by someone floating around and blasting it from range.

Thrown weapons.  And at Supernatural Strength (+6 lifting) with ZERO Might, they're strong enough to use an average adult as a throwing weapon.  Given enough might, CARS start working too, as does some random chunk of rock (or pavement) they just ripped out of the ground.

[Haru]

For example:
Athletics, for angelic wings.
Conviction for Green Lantern sort of flight source.
Craftsmanship for jet pack (say an item of power).
Lore for some sort of passive magic effect (something I would expect from Leanasidhe).

Wings has the condition that they always have to be visible, except for when you have a power that can conceal them. That makes them powerful in a fight, but if you want or need to keep a low profile, you are not going to be able to use them everywhere. If you want to make a (mostly) invisible wings power, I would treat it as an upgrade to the existing wings power at [-1].

I would probably require an aspect that reflects the ability to fly, otherwise I would treat his athletics (or other) skill as mediocre when flying, which makes it a bit less powerful if it is not a natural state for the character.

[Sanctaphrax]

Human Guise costs nothing and hides Wings.

Human Form costs less than nothing and hides Wings even more effectively.

The obtrusiveness of the power is not an important part of its balance.

[zenten]

Neither work while you're using the power though, so tight spaces can still be a problem for Fly.

[admiralducksauce]

Basically, it comes down to if you think it's overpowered, charge 2 refresh for it.

I personally don't value flight on the same level as, say, Channeling, but to each his own.