Smith and Wesson 500

[fantazero]

So do we count a Smith and Wesson 500 as a Weapon 2,3, or 4?


they use it to hunt bears, it makes the 44 look like a sissy pistol

[Morgan]

Weapon 3 it is still only a really big pistol not a battlefield artillery piece.

[EdgeOfDreams]

Up to you, but the folks I play with rarely give out Weapon: 4 for anything less than a full 50-cal sniper rifle or the equivalent.

[admiralducksauce]

Weapon:3.

[JayTee]

Weapon: 4, its pathetically easy to get high weapon ratings if you know your gunlore. Although there is still the issue or rate-of-fire, recoil, reload speed and magazine size for most of them, all of which should be used to Compel against you, or a Self-Compel.

[devonapple]

What is the kinetic profile of a typical round fired from such a pistol, and how does it compare to other benchmark guns in the DresdenVerse? "Used to hunt bears" sounds badass, but if you want peer review, lets see some numbers.

[fantazero]

What is the kinetic profile of a typical round fired from such a pistol, and how does it compare to other benchmark guns in the DresdenVerse? "Used to hunt bears" sounds badass, but if you want peer review, lets see some numbers.

Harry Carried a 44 Magnum. SO bigger than that. Kincaid used a 50 cal that he killed Denarians with so less than that.

In REAL life the 50bmg is 2000-2500 FPS the 500 magnum is 1500-1750

44 vs 500


I'm happy with a 3 or 4

[JayTee]

What is the kinetic profile of a typical round fired from such a pistol, and how does it compare to other benchmark guns in the DresdenVerse? "Used to hunt bears" sounds badass, but if you want peer review, lets see some numbers.

A 9mm (Weapon:2) has around five to six hundred pounds of force behind it
A .44 (Desert Eagle, Weapon: 3) has around 1,100 to 1,500 pounds of force behind it
A .500 S&W (mentioned above) has around 2,200 to 3,000 pounds of force behind it.

Gotta be honest, seems around Weapon: 4 to me.

EDIT: Huh, I've got different numbers, what is your source Fantazero?

[Shecky]

Um... damn.

[Sanctaphrax]

Rather surprised at the amount of thought that people put into this.

I always just eyeball weapon ratings.

[Todjaeger]

Rather surprised at the amount of thought that people put into this.

I always just eyeball weapon ratings.

I agree, particularly since the weapon and combat system is rather abstract, with Consequences as actual damage.

A 9mm (Weapon:2) has around five to six hundred pounds of force behind it
A .44 (Desert Eagle, Weapon: 3) has around 1,100 to 1,500 pounds of force behind it
A .500 S&W (mentioned above) has around 2,200 to 3,000 pounds of force behind it.

Gotta be honest, seems around Weapon: 4 to me.

EDIT: Huh, I've got different numbers, what is your source Fantazero?

Took a quick look at some of munitions books, specifically Ammo & Ballistics 3rd ed. and 4th ed. both by Bob Forker, and here is the info and my conclusions:

The .500 Smith & Wesson Special Magnum loading which has the highest foot-pounds (a measure of kinetic energy) at the muzzle is the Hornady 300-grain FTX (9249), with 2,868 foot-pounds at the muzzle
http://www.hornady.com/store/500-SW-300-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

Now, a .308 Winchester, which is the same round as a 7.62mm NATO, also from Hornady, the 178-grain BTHP Superformance Match has at the muzzle 3,043 foot-pounds.
http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-178-gr-BTHP-Superformance-Match/

Given that a battle rifle chambered in 7.62mm NATO, or a normal deer rifle chambered in .308 Winchester is per the Weapons chart considered Weapon:3, then an over-sized handgun (with examples given like a .50 AE Desert Eagle) should also be Weapon:3.  Oddly enough, the chart already has that.

Therefore, I would really suggest people just stick with the chart.  Unless or until the players start shooting, or getting shot at with significantly more potent weaponry like AGM-114 Hellfire II anti-tank guided missiles, or 120mm APFSDS tungsten KE penetrators from the cannon of a Leopard IIA6 or M1A2 Abrams main battle tank (MBT), then weapons with ratings between Weapon:1 and Weapon:3 are going to cover virtually everything a character could reasonably get their hands on.  Weapon:4 could then be used for larger weapons, like if a character was able to get a mini-gun like the orange gorilla fired in Small Favor, or a 0.50 cal. Browning Machine Gun (BMG) or a 40mm grenade launcher, or just regular hand grenades.

On a side note, large calibre handguns are NOT usually used for hunting dangerous game like bears.  What is usually used is a large calibre, high velocity rifle round like a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.  A large calibre handgun usually serves as a 'self-defense' weapon, so that if a hunter gets treed by a bear, or gets charged when the rifle isn't ready, the hunter can shoot the bear in shoulder to stop the bear.  It is possible to kill a bear with something like a .500 S&W Special Magnum, but given the serious range/accuracy limitations a handgun that large has, deliberately attempting to hunt a bear with it could make the hunter eligible for a Darwin award, depending on whether the hunter has children of not.

-Cheers

[Tedronai]

It is my understanding that (the non-darwin-award version of) large game hunting with an oversized handgun involves the use of that gun primarily as a 'holdout' in case the animal survives a rifle shot, charges, or otherwise reaches an uncomfortable proximity to the hunter without having been killed.
There are, of course, individuals in the world just begging to earn a darwin award, who might forgo the use of a rifle in the pursuit of a greater challenge.

[fantazero]

no plenty of people hunt Bears, Deer ect with Handguns of large Caliber. I wouldnt say it's stupid, Dangerous, yes, stupid no.
It was designed to hunt large game, the barrel is that long on the full size models to shoot at longer ranges (notice you can attach a scope to it)
Weapons 3 sounds fine to me.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I don't compare weapons to each other directly specifically because the system doesn't have enough room to do so (battle axe is more dangerous than longsword, but both are two handed weapons, so both are Weapon 3, etc).

So, for guns: Most pistols, regardless of type, are Weapon 2.  Big ones, DEagle, Magnums, etc. are Weapon 3.  Weapon 4 is reserved for explosives, anti-tank weapons, cannons, etc.  So...is this a battlefield scale weapon?  No?  Then it's Weapon 3.

Even high powered sniper rifles are just Weapon 3.  That extra damage comes from stacking maneuvers and declarations.

If you want it to do more, use Guns to make a declaration, place an aspect.  Now your giant calibre pistol is plot relevant and not just a fancy gun. 

[Todjaeger]

no plenty of people hunt Bears, Deer ect with Handguns of large Caliber. I wouldnt say it's stupid, Dangerous, yes, stupid no.
It was designed to hunt large game, the barrel is that long on the full size models to shoot at longer ranges (notice you can attach a scope to it)
Weapons 3 sounds fine to me.

There are indeed a range of 'hunting' handguns which are used to hunt deer, large mountain goats, etc.  However, such animals don't typically present the potential threat to the hunter than a bear or other predatory animal does.  I'm sure there are some hunters who do use a handgun to hunt bear, but I don't believe that is the particular type of game that most handgun hunters aim for.  Pardon the pun...

-Cheers