Tattoos for other Vampires

[Rubycon]

Hi,
is it possible (or should it be), that the tattoos of St.Giles help protect "Near-Vampires" of other Courts tha the red one. As far as I know, the red and the white Court have the phenomen that inflicted persons have a half-state where they are not full vampires. So, at least for  the white Court Virgins I would assume that either the tattos of St. Giles help these Virgins, too, or that there is something simular for them.
As for the black Court, I don't know about how they get their progeny, but if they have an inflicted-but-not-crossed-over-state, than there might be a protection for them, too.
What do you think?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Going by proper Dracula lore, I'm going to say there is no half-turned for blampires.  Unless you want to count being dead by blampire bite but not yet having risen from the dead as one yourself as half-turned.

[SunlessNick]

Once Dracula forced Mina to drink his blood, she was affected by holy symbols like vampires were, and Van Hesling suspected she'd rise if she died before he did.  So there's half state in that sense; it didn't give her any abilities or impose any bloodthirst though, so it's hard to see what the tattoos would be needed to guard against.

[Masurao]

We don't have any canon examples of how someone is turned into a blampire, do we? (Though, I'll admit that I may not have read their entry in OW well enough... Will fix that now)

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Once Dracula forced Mina to drink his blood, she was affected by holy symbols like vampires were, and Van Hesling suspected she'd rise if she died before he did.  So there's half state in that sense; it didn't give her any abilities or impose any bloodthirst though, so it's hard to see what the tattoos would be needed to guard against.

Eh, depends on your interpretation I guess.  Regardless, a bedridden, non-lucid, dying character is not really in need of tattoos or even very playable.

[newtinmpls]

Being lazy - I'm a fan of Wheeler and Rice's "if you like it, steal it" - I just go with Butcher's various comments about black court vamps being "the standard" and pretty common in "the standard" are stories that vamps aren't non-redeemable untill they actually drink blood themselves. So sure, I allow tattoos to work on them in my Dresdenverse.

[Rubycon]

What about the white Court? As I see it, many of those who grow up like normal mortals should have ethics and morals like a normal mortal. So, at least for some of them becoming a mindsucking monster isn't really an option - if only they have a chance to resist. Sure, some of them try, more or less successful.But I'm sure that a competent wizard or some sponsoring source could provide further assistance, be it with tattoos or something else.

[SunlessNick]

Regardless, a bedridden, non-lucid, dying character is not really in need of tattoos or even very playable.  -  The Mighty Blizzard

Mina wasn't either of those things; that was Lucy.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Mina wasn't either of those things; that was Lucy.

Fair nuff.  I plead not having read it in over a decade.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I don't think they're necessary. 

White Court already has an obvious physical change (for someone looking for it).  I suppose you could put some tats on a virgin.  Unfortunately, they typically have no idea they're vamps.

Blampires have to be dead.  If you've been bitten, keep from dying and you won't turn. 

Red court is the only one where there's a deciding line that you can fight against.

[Richard_Chilton]

We don't have any canon examples of how someone is turned into a blampire, do we? (Though, I'll admit that I may not have read their entry in OW well enough... Will fix that now)

You might want to read the short story "It's my birthday too".

(click to show/hide)

where during the story a master Black Court Vampire creates three new vamps, implying that it takes minutes or less to make one

What about the white Court? As I see it, many of those who grow up like normal mortals should have ethics and morals like a normal mortal. So, at least for some of them becoming a mindsucking monster isn't really an option - if only they have a chance to resist. Sure, some of them try, more or less successful.But I'm sure that a competent wizard or some sponsoring source could provide further assistance, be it with tattoos or something else.

This was debated a while ago.  Basically:
The Red Court Tattoos would have required lots of research to create.  Think Harry as he was at the beginning of Summer Knight, but going on for years - maybe decades.  It requires a wizard (or group of wizards) who really need to help a red court infected person.  Probably a loved one.
It's no cure, but it's a partial treatment for someone to you have to save.

Compare "my loved one was infected by the Red Court" with knowing a young member White Court, one that hasn't transformed yet.  Would someone have the year or decades required to find a treatment? Probably not, but luckily long before they came up with anything like the tattoos they would stumble over the cure.  There is no cure known to mortals for Red Court Infected but there is one for White Court Virgins - and manipulating them into loving someone for that first time would be much easier than creating a treatment.

It's like the difference between diabetes and appendicitis.  There is no cure for diabetes but we have developed a treatment that can keep diabetics alive and relatively healthy - but only relatively.  Diabetics sometimes go blind or lose legs or encounter other health problems while insulin keeps them alive.  Appendicitis isn't usually chronic - but if you don't have access to surgery it will kill you.  And while it is routine surgery now it was major, life threatening surgery for decades after the invention of insulin.

The tattoos = insulin = treat something that can't be cured.
Loving your first one = operation = a drastic treatment that cures the patient.

Richard

[Drulinda]

I don't think they're necessary. 

Blampires have to be dead.  If you've been bitten, keep from dying and you won't turn. 

This is a case where to be sure we'd really need jims word on how much of Dracula was made up to increase sales in the dresdenverse. As already pointed out in the book blampires are said to be able to sorta infect others with drinking their blood. In theory this sounds like an important delibertatly included fact. on the other hand blampires are dried and emacicated, do they actually have any blood left to give?....or is that what the black fluid from one ear in BR was?

[Sanctaphrax]

I would say that the tattoos of St Giles would be useless for non-Red Court Infected.

But it wouldn't be impossible to develop something similar for White Court Virgins.

The Black Court is probably right out, though. They don't seem to have a half-state.

[braincraft]

Incidentally, while 'blampire' is a great word, I always call them 'blackulas'.

[devonapple]

My thoughts:
Since the fiction as good as says that Bram Stoker's "Dracula" is the manual of how Black Court Vampires work, and is so effective that the Black Court is all but extinct, then I'm going to side with whatever is established in that source.

That said, creating mindless thralls is one thing - creating companions is another. I could maybe buy into a scheme which resulted in a Dhampir-type situation in which a Black Court victim being prepared to be a full BCV somehow remained perpetually on the edge of undeath. It would be so rare, however, that I wouldn't buy into an established mechanism for creation, or any solution akin to the Tattoos of St. Giles.

White Court Vampires, not having any infection vector, wouldn't have the same risk of spreading as Red Court, and they are generally so few in number that I wouldn't really buy into there being a secret group of anybody - even WCV's - dedicated to keeping WC Virgins in their adolescent state.