Making diamonds

[noclue]

AS for knowing what carbon atoms look like, we do. 

Looks like a waffle to me

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Sounds to me like you are trying to create Geo-Alchemy. Big Earth magics, mixed with trasmorgrative spells, to let shifts in form be permanent. With the addition of polish and cut to the jem, I would put this about as difficult as building a sparrow from scratch. Not impossible, but not a snap.

"Also, consider that the consequences and other aspects in those situations are often the result of the spell, but they aren't sustained by the spell.  Attacks of that kind don't really have an intrinsic duration--they just happen, and they're done."
(YS266)

I think there's a good argument that it's not even transformative since it's still the exact same number and type of atoms;  only their positioning is changed and carbon is just as happy being diamonds as coal.  I don't think you'd need to allocate even one shift to duration.

Yeah, it'd definitely take more complexity to arrange them in a pretty fashion but that's not really necessary if you can just pay a jeweler to do it for you or tell them lop off enough to cover the cost and keep it.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Looks like a waffle to me

Yeah, made me hungry.

[braincraft]

Go with the Value of a Diamond. Check out buying things and see what a Diamond costs. Then use that as your base difficulty for creating a Diamond with thaumaturgy. If you then want to create a really huge and really expensive diamond... well, cost will go up quick.

If you use the value relative to human resources, the value will change as supply and demand change.

So are you agreeing or disagreeing that it gets easier as the technological manufacturing base advances?

[noclue]

If you use the value relative to human resources, the value will change as supply and demand change.

So are you agreeing or disagreeing that it gets easier as the technological manufacturing base advances?

I'd say it's as difficult as it needs to be to make the story go. Were not modeling reality anyway, just a story with a modicum of verisimilitude.

Also, did I see the Buzzard imply that teleportation spells were simple above?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Also, did I see the Buzzard imply that teleportation spells were simple above?

Harry managed a short distance teleport potion in the first book, granted with the help of Bob for a significant lore boost.  Which means he could pull off the same as a proper thaumaturgy spell.  Also stands to reason that LoS and extremely short distance would be somewhat easier than non-LoS and a couple dozen yards.  Exact amounts would be up to the GM.  Simple, no, but doable at 8-10 base refresh.

[BumblingBear]

If you have thaumatergy, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just steal some?

[The Mighty Buzzard]

If you have thaumatergy, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just steal some?

It's pretty easy to steal them without thaumaturgy.  Guns are almost certainly cheaper than the materials you'd need to produce diamonds via magic on any scale worth mentioning.  Plus it'd be a lot more exciting.  It just amused me to think about how best to do it.

[BumblingBear]

It's pretty easy to steal them without thaumaturgy.  Guns are almost certainly cheaper than the materials you'd need to produce diamonds via magic on any scale worth mentioning.  Plus it'd be a lot more exciting.  It just amused me to think about how best to do it.

With thaumatergy, you wouldn't have to hold anyone up to steal stuff.

You could just pop in and grab it after hours or summon it if you had the means to do so.  Getting shavings from a diamond cutting facility would be the easiest way.

[Onkel Thorsen]

As someone pointed out in another thread - this system is not based on physical principles, but story instead - the in-game Difficulty should really be based on what the player expects the diamond to do.
If all they are looking for is something good enough to cut glass, it might be nothing more than an Average difficulty.
If they want a one-shot Resources boost - the difficulty should represent that amount.

I would however add in a supplemental Craftsmanship (gem-cutting) action if you want a properly faceted stone.

[BumblingBear]

As someone pointed out in another thread - this system is not based on physical principles, but story instead - the in-game Difficulty should really be based on what the player expects the diamond to do.
If all they are looking for is something good enough to cut glass, it might be nothing more than an Average difficulty.
If they want a one-shot Resources boost - the difficulty should represent that amount.

I would however add in a supplemental Craftsmanship (gem-cutting) action if you want a properly faceted stone.

I would argue that how this is done completely varies from gm to gm and table to table.  I prefer to GM with as much "common sense" as possible.  I lay the groundwork of the story and the players flesh it out, but I try to interject as much "realism" as possible.  When I do so, there seems to be much higher player satisfaction.

[Onkel Thorsen]

I would argue that how this is done completely varies from gm to gm and table to table.  I prefer to GM with as much "common sense" as possible.  I lay the groundwork of the story and the players flesh it out, but I try to interject as much "realism" as possible.  When I do so, there seems to be much higher player satisfaction.

Of course! 
But for that sort of thing you have to balance realistic simulation of physics with what's most relevant to the game.
If you want to intimidate a bunch of mobsters by melting a jukebox with a fire evocation, should you evaluate the amount of energy needed to do the job or should you just figure it as a maneuver to place an aspect on the scene?

[braincraft]

The problem with applying realism to magic in this setting is that magic in the setting explicitly follows something nearly indistinguishable from narrative law.

[ARedthorn]

I'd be willing to accept permanence of a transformation for free in some cases... but I'd still push for the player to pay extra shifts for "authenticity"... again, making yourself into a wolf that's close enough to a wolf to fool a biologist is a lot harder than it seems... same goes for diamonds no matter how regular the patterns are... after all, not all diamonds are created equal. The carbon structure in diamonds has never been found to be perfect, and the flaws that occur naturally and in artificially made ones are easy to spot with even a skilled optical inspection- the artificial ones stand out, and are considered less valuable (because they're less rare, and the value of rare minerals is almost entirely a result of their rarity).
Make one too regular, too unflawed, and you're likely to get a lot of unwanted attention.
Make it flawed the wrong way, and it loses value, or worse, mimics a variety of conflict or blood diamonds.

Litmus test: one could also use a ritual like this to turn a bunch of lard and canvas into a forgery of a lost van gogh oil painting. If the only defining factor in the shift-cost of the spell is the value of the item, then someone like harry, with no knowledge of art or forgery, and little eye for detail, could conceivably whip up a perfect forgery (genuinely perfect) in no time flat from a picture in a book he got from the library.
This, I'd say, is inappropriate when the item itself bears a great deal of complexity he has no right to mimic so easily (textures, pigments available in the era, aging and cracking of the paint, etc, that he'd have no way of knowing, much less getting right).
If you make the authenticity factor (DC of determining whether the item is genuine) something the player gets for free during a successful transmutation, then you make imitating a van gogh as easy as imitating a child's fingerpainting.

[Delmorian]

Also... minor point to mention. Currently, they can test the mineral content, what ever was in the soil the diamond was born in, and identify WHERE it came from. What would it show, in this case? If you used carbon from coal in Minnesota, would it read as a Minnesota diamond? Or would it come to match what ever sample you used as a template.
Ooooooooo, would you not get to reduce shifts, if you used the magical property of similarity and used a sample to set the "Pattern" and just matched the material to that? So, steal one diamond, and use it as a "Template" to work Geo-Alchemy and make more.
Also, make enough and DuBose and the others in the diamond kartel will come gunning for you. Same goes for the emerald kartel in Brazil, and the Ruby kartel in india. They frown upon competition. Not to mention, you can kill the price, by removing the rarity.
Personally, I plan to get rich by harvesting unreachable platinum under the oceans. Thats just a question of Detection and transportation. No one "owns" it and you CANT glut the market, Platinum is ALWAYS needed, to get the Fuel Cell research going.