Author Topic: Question on general modifiers  (Read 1565 times)

Offline Thratchen

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Question on general modifiers
« on: August 13, 2011, 04:39:20 AM »
Okay, so this may possibly be discussed somewhere in the rather massive catalog of posts, but I'm running tomorrow and it's just easier to ask here.

So as I read it, there are no general modifiers for anything unless somebody wants to spend a Fate point to take advantage of it.  If it's dark, and you're sneaking around, you spend a fate point to tag the darkness aspect and get a +2.  However, if it's really dark and you want to shoot somebody who has no fate points, it's just as easy as if it were bright sunshine.  If somebody's shooting at you in the middle of a hurricane on a pitching ship with no lights at midnight, and you have three Fate points to spend you can take them down by 6 (2 each for the wind, moving ship and darkness) so you're golden.  With no Fate points you're a sitting duck.  Same if you create a hurricane using magic, you have to have the Fate points to take advantage of it (save for one free tag) or it's a bit pointless.

Am I reading this right?  Seems a bit unrealistic...

Also, for created aspects - one of our players used illusion magic to create this huge demon rising from the street and causing lots of light and noise and general hubbub, placing the 'distracting' aspect on the scene.  There were a bunch of bad guys in the area.  Would there be a free tag on the first one of the bad guys around to distract him, while the rest basically ignore the demon without the expenditure of more Fate points?  Or is it a freebie for each enemies?

I tend not to give out the Fate points like water, but I don't think I'm being cheap.  It just seems like actually using the background aspects as though there were proper modifiers would be hideously expensive.

Am I just doing it wrong or something?  :)
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Question on general modifiers
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 05:25:28 AM »
This question has two sets of answers: The Dresden Files RPG answer, and the general Fate based games answer.

Dresden Files has very few situational modifiers. Much of what you'd handle in other games with terrain modifiers, lighting modifiers, etc are covered by Aspects. That's because this version of Fate doesn't seek to model physics; it's attempting to model dramatic narratives, where things only matter when, you know, they matter.

Now, there are some rules for adjudicating non-Aspect modifiers. These begin on page 311 and wrap around to 312. The rules are a bit vague, they use the word "Aspect" more than I like, and they don't explicitly mention resisted rolls.

However! If you take a look at page 142, under the Hiding trapping of Stealth, there's an explicit mention of using the modifiers on page 311 as the basis for resisted rolls. So you can make your Stealth roll against a difficulty as modified by lighting conditions, then compare Shifts to, say, an Alertness roll.

So there are some modifiers. They can be used in contested rolls. They are pretty vague and are basically left up to the GM to use or not as they wish.

Now, the general answer for Fate games.

Some other Fate games have a more robust set of modifiers. Spirit of the Century and Kerberos Club (Fate edition, as compared to the ORE edition) both have things like lighting condition charts. They both offer more support for things like circumstantial modifiers.

However, whether and how often such things are used is mostly left up to the group to decide. If you think that there should be more modifiers, use more modifiers. I'd just suggest talking it over with your group so that everyone's on the same page.

As for the bunch of people question...

There don't seem to be rules to Compel a group of people with one Aspect. You can Invoke For Effect on scene Aspects, which I imagine you could do for something like, "There's no clear line of sight between us," or the like. I think that's the simplest way to do it with a group of NPCs all at once.

Offline sinker

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Re: Question on general modifiers
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 06:09:15 AM »
I'll refer you to something I just said in another thread:

Something that I'm beginning to grasp is that FATE is all about creating a fiction, not about creating reality. Consider one of the aspects that everyone hates: the burning building. Not having been in a burning building I can only imagine, but I would guess it would be important all of the time. The smoke, the heat, would be a near constant influence on everything. However consider the burning buildings in Jim Butcher's novels. There are many times where Harry is trying to do something in a burning building. Sometimes it is a factor in how things happen, but other times it seems to fade into the background. It's not dramatically appropriate for the burning building to influence the action, and so it doesn't. We pretend that at that moment the fire lets up, or Harry finds some measure of safety.

This is the goal we are looking for with FATE. When someone invokes/compels an aspect it becomes a part of the story, important to what's going on. When no one interacts with that aspect it fades into the background, and is simply less important.

Also consider that when an aspect is not being invoked, it does not mean that it isn't relevant. Just because your defense roll isn't adjusted for the wind, does not mean that there was no wind, just that the wind didn't benefit you. This can be a justification for how the story/mechanics are shaped as you move forward.

Additionally you might want to check out that thread as it contains others' answer to a similar question. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28290.0.html

As for your scene aspect question it depends largely on a number of things. If you are trying to modify a roll then yes, one tag effects one roll by one guy and subsequent uses require a fate point. If you are trying to create an effect that works on everyone then it is best as Haru said to invoke for effect, creating a situation that your GM may choose to deal with as a compel or a situational modifier. The only issue with that is that it's largely up to the GM as to how they want to deal with it (I.E. how they believe that your situation will effect others). A third option (that can be tough to manage) is to create individual aspects, which would be tagged individually, however that typically involves thaumaturgy or some not necessarily RAW bending of the evocation rules.

Another minor niggly detail is that aspects can't negatively modify a roll (without compelling, which is largely the GM's providence and may do more than a simple -2). So in your example you're spending those fate points to boost your own defense roll, not reduce the opponent's attack roll.

Offline ARedthorn

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Re: Question on general modifiers
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 09:29:24 AM »
All of the above- perfectly in line with what I know, but I'll add one thing, if you have your heart set on it- since we're all about simulating dramatic narratives (and cinematic ones, while we're at it)... It's a chance to pull inspiration straight from Hollywood... Both guys taking a break every other round to shout at eachother from cover... You could take this as them refreshing their spent <Cover> fragile aspect with a new maneuver.
Course, unless someone gets lucky, sooner or later, someone always gets fed up, breaks the pattern (and their cover) and goes guns-blazing while the other guy wastes his time catching his breath. This is also cinematically apropriate.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Question on general modifiers
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 12:46:35 PM »
See this thread for more discussion on the subject and YS310-312 for the rules. 
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Question on general modifiers
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 07:20:04 PM »
Even ignoring the stuff about making a story, it's important to remember than DFRPG is very very abstract. There is often no direct correspondence between in-game reality and the mechanical situation.

I like this, because it provides good balance without a great deal of effort. What sinker talks about is true, but it isn't the reason I like this approach.