Situational Modifiers and Fate Points

[cybertier]

Okay i am coming from the usual suspects of others rpgs (Shadowrun, World of Darkness, Das Schwarze Auge, D&D)
Now i am trying to wrap my mind around the rules and ideas of the Fate System and the DFRPG and want to start with City and Character Creation this weekend.

But something still bothers me:
What happens when the PC run out of Fate Points? Can't they get any advantages anymore through any "situational modifiers"?
Lets say there is a PC with no Fate Points in a gunfight. He pushes over some furniture to act as cover for him. He gets the temporary aspect "Behind Cover".
Sooo...The next time someone shots him he can tag that for a +2 on his dodge.
But what happens after? He's still behind cover but won't get anything for it?
Should i justify that by saying the NPCs run around the cover?

I can see this come up alot, like in a sneaky scenario where there are definitely Aspects that help with sneaking, like "Really Dark Place", and the PC wouldn't get anything out of it because he's out of Fate?

Am i missing something? Am i worrying to much and stuff will just work somehow?

[Radijs]

You've got the heart of the matter. A maneuver can place a temporary aspect that can be tagged for free, once.

After that he's got the aspect but no use for it. At that point he might try to compel himself or have the GM compel him through one of his aspects to let the player accquire new fate points.

[Rubycon]

I thought of this, too. When you go strictly by the rules, you are right, I think. Temporary aspects need fate points, too after the first tagging.
So, either you push rules aside when it makes no senso to you - you could even decide this differently from scene to scene - or you try to be creative. In your scenario, the bad guys can sprint around the furniture. Or, after the first round, they simply have adapted and shoot through it (I don't think a normal piece of furniture can withstand bullets) and a dodge roll is interpreted as leaving the cover.

[Tallyrand]

This is something that has bothered me too.  Yes, you can rationalize that the combat is constantly moving (although there are a lot of situations where that doesn't really work either) but you do have other options.  For example, if the player is planning on sticking behind the cover you can tell him he should use his tag to create a Block effect appropriate to what he's hiding behind (specifically declaring a barrier between zones).  Similarly you could point out to him that he's in a bad spot without fate and suggest that rather than taking the aspect Behind Cover to take the aspect Pinned Down telling him that he can take that +2 Def Roll every round he wants but he'll also have to accept a compel every round for a penalty to attacks and the inability to move.

[Watson]

Lets say there is a PC with no Fate Points in a gunfight. He pushes over some furniture to act as cover for him. He gets the temporary aspect "Behind Cover".

If he would like to get a mechanical benefit from pushing over the furniture, it shall be done as a Maneuver, which is creating an Aspect. As it is created, he can tag (i.e. use it) once for free. 

Sooo...The next time someone shots him he can tag that for a +2 on his dodge.
But what happens after? He's still behind cover but won't get anything for it?
Should i justify that by saying the NPCs run around the cover?

After he has tagged the Aspect once for free, he needs to pay a Fate Point to be able to use it again. You can say that he is still behind cover, but it does not benefit him. For it to benefit him (mechanically in the game), he has to pay a Fate Point to indicate that it is relevant in the story.

Also remember that combat in Fate is not the same tactical type of combat that is seen in "regular games" - the position within a zone is not defined. This means that the shooter can have moved around the target.

[Tallyrand]

Also remember that combat in Fate is not the same tactical type of combat that is seen in "regular games" - the position within a zone is not defined. This means that the shooter can have moved around the target.

While it's true that Fate isn't a map tactical game generally there are still some significant situations where the way this mechanic works as you describe takes the players completely out of the narrative.  Say for example that the characters have found themselves in what seems to be an old west town (via time travel, fey trickery or what have you) and in the middle of a classic shoot out.  Several characters (and some of the opposition) do what people are want to do in these stories and take cover behind barrels, fallen horses, and wagons.  No no-one is running back and forth getting behind cover, it's not likely that any amount of shooting will negate the usefulness of a wagon or horse as cover, and yet with that limited view of the mechanic after the first round everyone may as well just stand in the middle of the street and unload.  Also note that this scenario doesn't require some convoluted old west shoot out, I just like the imagery.

[Radijs]

This is something that has bothered me too.  Yes, you can rationalize that the combat is constantly moving (although there are a lot of situations where that doesn't really work either) but you do have other options.  For example, if the player is planning on sticking behind the cover you can tell him he should use his tag to create a Block effect appropriate to what he's hiding behind (specifically declaring a barrier between zones).  Similarly you could point out to him that he's in a bad spot without fate and suggest that rather than taking the aspect Behind Cover to take the aspect Pinned Down telling him that he can take that +2 Def Roll every round he wants but he'll also have to accept a compel every round for a penalty to attacks and the inability to move.

These sound like good options. Both the block as the pinned down aspect.

[cybertier]

Blocks created that way need you to use your action each round to maintain them?

[Tallyrand]

In this case the block would act like a barrier between zones, no maintanence required.  I would however limit the value of the barrier to no more than 3 or 4 unless in extreme circumstances, and chairs may only be block 1.  Mechanically there are some hinky bits to this method, technically the barrier should apply to the hiding character as well and it may require drawing in a new zone, but if you're willing to hand wave those problems it becomes a nice low maintenance way to create the effect you're looking for.

[Watson]

No no-one is running back and forth getting behind cover, it's not likely that any amount of shooting will negate the usefulness of a wagon or horse as cover, and yet with that limited view of the mechanic after the first round everyone may as well just stand in the middle of the street and unload.

You are correct, as long as no one is spending Fate Points and no one are doing new Manuevers to create new Aspects [to tag for free]. I also feel that this is a little bit strange, but am trying to see it through a new perspective (after years of "traditional RPG's) - in FATE, this indicates that [for some reason] the covers used does not seem to be important, story-wise.

[EldritchFire]

While it's true that Fate isn't a map tactical game generally there are still some significant situations where the way this mechanic works as you describe takes the players completely out of the narrative.  Say for example that the characters have found themselves in what seems to be an old west town (via time travel, fey trickery or what have you) and in the middle of a classic shoot out.  Several characters (and some of the opposition) do what people are want to do in these stories and take cover behind barrels, fallen horses, and wagons.  No no-one is running back and forth getting behind cover, it's not likely that any amount of shooting will negate the usefulness of a wagon or horse as cover, and yet with that limited view of the mechanic after the first round everyone may as well just stand in the middle of the street and unload.  Also note that this scenario doesn't require some convoluted old west shoot out, I just like the imagery.

Just wait for them to pop their head up from cover. Shoot. No cover bonus for you!

Remember, for every "reason" someone comes up with for why the rules don't work, you'll have someone come along and "prove" how they do work. FATE is all about how you imagine the story.

I always see FATE as Story First.

-EF

[UmbraLux]

But something still bothers me:
What happens when the PC run out of Fate Points? Can't they get any advantages anymore through any "situational modifiers"?

There's no table as in some games but situational modifiers are allowed.  They're simply left up to the GM.  See pages YS310-YS312.

Lets say there is a PC with no Fate Points in a gunfight. He pushes over some furniture to act as cover for him. He gets the temporary aspect "Behind Cover".
Sooo...The next time someone shots him he can tag that for a +2 on his dodge.
But what happens after? He's still behind cover but won't get anything for it?
Should i justify that by saying the NPCs run around the cover?

If the "behind cover" is simply tagged once then yes, it's assumed to be negated by fire or movement unless the individual spends fate.  It's worth noting "behind cover" could have been invoked for effect so the opponent couldn't shoot him at all until he did something (usually movement or maneuver) to negate that aspect.

I can see this come up alot, like in a sneaky scenario where there are definitely Aspects that help with sneaking, like "Really Dark Place", and the PC wouldn't get anything out of it because he's out of Fate?

Am i missing something? Am i worrying to much and stuff will just work somehow?

Two things - assessments, declarations, and maneuvers will all give one free tag to the individual.  They're gold when you're running low on fate.  Second, compel!  Self compel, compel each other, and have the GM compel!  Keep those fate chips flowing. 

[InFerrumVeritas]

On Fate being tactical:  The tactics in fate are more akin to tactics in something like a card game.  Positioning doesn't really matter much, but clever use of resources available is key.

[cybertier]

There's no table as in some games but situational modifiers are allowed.  They're simply left up to the GM.  See pages YS310-YS312.

That's what i have been looking for

I managed to finish the rules part of the book yesterday but didn't get to the storyteller part yet.
With years of the same or similar systems i forgot how much work new systems are.

[devonapple]

GMs are also free to incorporate natural barriers into their Scene maps in order to make it more tactical. A circle of barrels can be a Zone of its own, with a barrier of 2-3 against attacks (which may or may not affect the attacks of the one hiding).