On Writing a Series

[pharis81]

Does anyone have any suggestions on writing a series of novels? How much of my character's past should I reveal in the first book? Should I sandbag some of my characters skills/abilites for later books? What pitfalls might I encounter?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

How closely connected do you intend the series to be, is the first question I'd ask ?  If your potential reader finds volume 2 in a second-hand bookshop years from now, how much will they need to have volume 1 first ?  There are series where the individual volumes are pretty stand-alone, and there are ones that are like one big novel with several annoying extra sheets of cardboard inserted every hundred thousand words or whatever, and they are very different things.

[pharis81]

I'm going to write it more or less like a sit-com. The individual books will stand on their own, but references will be made to events from past books. What I'm trying to do now is decide whether I want the overall arc of the series to be character-driven or plot-driven. Right now I'm leaning towards character-driven. Kind of like the Fletch series by Gregory McDonald.

[Josh]

A couple things.

First, if you're planning to write a series, I'd say to not kill yourself over putting all sorts of background and history into each book. Not even the first one. For one thing, your character is going to change. Writing a story does that. You change a lot of things as you go, people die, others are introduced. So trying to force a pre-set background into the story is going to give it a more static feel. Sure, it's great to have a lot of those ideas and outlined info to springboard off of, but keep it flexible.

And don't plan out too far ahead. It's great to have ideas, but until you've actually finished the first draft of that first book, nothing is there. If you focus too much on the legacy of writing a series just for the sake of it being a series, then you may try too hard to make it all complicated and plot-thready, confusing readers by the hints and background secrets you drop along for some event you're planning for the fifth book. Write it one book at a time, and you'll be surprised how it evolves.

Characters grow. That's one of the big things a story should do, is change a character. Make them smarter, or wiser, stronger, or having gone through some transformation. When I have approached projects that I thought had potential for more than one book, I focused on the first book, but at the same time just kept different files or papers where I would at least jot down ideas for future reference. Then, after I finished the first draft, I was better able to understand how some of those elements might tie in together, and how the next story could be even deeper than the first.

[blgarver]

Whatever you do, don't wait 20 years to write a sequel.   i.e.  The Dark Tower

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Whatever you do, don't wait 20 years to write a sequel.   i.e.  The Dark Tower

There was never near twenty years between any two books in that series. Besides, by everything he has said about it, King does not appear to have had any choice in the matter, and I can respect not writing a sequel in preference to rushing a bad sequel you weren't ready to write.

My personal position on this is that I am not going to try to sell any story until and unless I have the last word of the last volume set down.

[blgarver]

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic.  Luckily I didn't start DT until they were all out so I didn't have to wait for any of them.

[Josh]

"My personal position on this is that I am not going to try to sell any story until and unless I have the last word of the last volume set down."

Why? If you said you were planning for each book to be stand-alone, why must the entire series be finished before you even try to get them out there? What if you finish the entire series, sell the first one, and then the editors want a big change in the plot that affects a character who appears throughout the rest of the series, or some other important element? Are you going to demand they buy the whole lot as is or forgeddaboutit? One book at a time, my friend. That's all I feel a writer should really care about, otherwise the emotional investment is spread rather thin.

Just my two, shiny round metal pieces.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

"My personal position on this is that I am not going to try to sell any story until and unless I have the last word of the last volume set down."

Why? If you said you were planning for each book to be stand-alone, why must the entire series be finished before you even try to get them out there?

OK, maybe I was unclear here.  To my mind, if each book is standalone, then they are
separate stories.

What if you finish the entire series, sell the first one, and then the editors want a big change in the plot that affects a character who appears throughout the rest of the series, or some other important element?

Professional editors tend not to buy something they'll want to do that with, is the thing. Or rather, if they agree to buy the whole thing, it's usually as a whole thing, and anything that needed drastic changes to make saleable is hopefully a thing that one would find out about as a condition of selling the first one, and which I would make a decision on whether was appropriate or not before getting into that position.

Are you going to demand they buy the whole lot as is or forgeddaboutit?

Not at all; though, as I believe I've said elsewhere on the forum, if an editor wanted to take out the sex and the socialism and make all the characters blonde Caucasians, they'd be looking for a book so different from anything I write that I would take it elsewhere.

One book at a time, my friend. That's all I feel a writer should really care about, otherwise the emotional investment is spread rather thin..

I'm very much of the opinion "one story at a time"; if that story is 450,000 words long and people want to put half a dozen superfluous pieces of cardboard in the middle and sell it as four volumes, that's a production and marketing issue, not a writing one. 

The thing I do not want to happen is to realise in the middle of Volume 4 how I should have done a key scene in Volume 2 to make the end work perfectly, when Volume 2 is already out there and set in stone, because that way, the writer's essentially completely screwed.  [ Unless you're Stephen King and have clout enough to persuade people to publish your revised editions as "they should have been this way all along". And very few of us are Stephen King. ]

[Josh]

"OK, maybe I was unclear here.  To my mind, if each book is standalone, then they are
separate stories."

Right. I know. But separate stories doesn't make each book a different series. You have all sorts of stories within a single series, especially if the series is focused on a single character, like you seem to be planning. What I'm saying is, each book in a series is part of a cohesive story itself. Trying to write a 450k+ monster and then lobbing the marketing and publicity efforts on the publishing house...that's going to make it very very hard to sell in the first place, because, ask around. How many editors and agents want to even touch a 450k+ story, plus have to put all the work into figuring out what part goes where in the series, plus editing the whole thing, plus...

As for editors buying habits...Just because an editor buys your story doesn't mean they think it's perfect. Every story is going to need some work, and pretty much every story that gets published goes through several revisions before it hits the presses and experiences significant changes to the text. Things do change in that process, and if you want your series to be set in stone, its going to make it incredibly difficult to sell, because editors much more prefer working with an author who is willing to accept some criticism and work to make their story stronger based on feedback.

With things like taking out the sex, changing a character's hair or skin color..that's not what I'm talking about in affecting your series. What I'm talking about is...you've got a character who appears in four of your...however many books you end up with. They play a part in several key scenes. They're a romantic interest for the hero. Problem is, when you try to sell the story, nobody likes this character. They're flat, distracting, and uninteresting. No matter how hard you try, this character just doesn't come across well, and it would help the story if they were surgically removed. This happens, sometimes no matter how hard the writer tries to make it work, or how skilled they may be. But if you've committed four books to having this character around, you may well flaw the series.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from this series. Series are great. They build a career, a character, a story. But I think you are making this much more difficult on yourself than need be.

Lastly...as for finishing a book and then going back to revise previous books to make it fit better? Unless you have every detail mapped out from start to finish before you even start the first book, it's going to be practically impossible to get every book "perfect" within an entire series. You can't predict what may happen. What if you actually get tired of the this series or this character? (I know, you won't, but what if?)

The reality is, you're always going to be able to look back at something you've written and see a way you could've done it better. But if you spend all your time going back and revising, then that story will never get finished, will never be perfect, and will never have a chance to get shopped around because you won't ever be satisfied with it. Doesn't it make sense to take that first book, polish it as best you can so it's as attractive as it can be, and then start shopping it around while writing the second book? Trust me for knowing (I work at a big publishing house), but lobbing several tomes of writing at an editor's or agent's head is not an attractive way to get your writing accepted. Show you can at least write one book first. Then show you're working on the second one and aren't a one-book-wonder. But don't hamstring yourself by visions of perfection and constant revision.

Pardon for the length of this. Fingers wouldn't listen when the brain said stop.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

"OK, maybe I was unclear here.  To my mind, if each book is standalone, then they are
separate stories."

Right. I know. But separate stories doesn't make each book a different series. You have all sorts of stories within a single series, especially if the series is focused on a single character, like you seem to be planning.

I think we've got turned around here somewhere as to who's talking to whom. I have no idea how connected pharis81's series is; of the things I've written that occur in the same world as each other, one of which is now sitting on an editor's desk awaiting decision, there's only a tiny bit of continuity of character, as the level of a one-chapter walk-on whom the protagonist of one book meets turning out to be the protagonist of one set a lot later - which surprised me.  I'd kind of prefer those two stories to come out in the order they were written, actually, so it doesn't look like I was shoehorning protagonist of book B into book A for no in-story reason.

What I'm saying is, each book in a series is part of a cohesive story itself. Trying to write a 450k+ monster and then lobbing the marketing and publicity efforts on the publishing house...that's going to make it very very hard to sell in the first place, because, ask around. How many editors and agents want to even touch a 450k+ story, plus have to put all the work into figuring out what part goes where in the series, plus editing the whole thing, plus...

I have no expectation of the 450k+ monster being sellable unless I can establish myself and sell other things first, which is why I have been focusing on other things for quite a while.  With regard to how they might want to divide it, that's really their decision; the story will fall internally into nine parts, most of which have a reasonable climax, so cutting it into two parts, three or four, would none of them do any violence to the thing.  I'd be extremely happy to see it sell as a single volume if anyone could actually market it at that size. [ Have solid drafts of seven of those parts and a first draft of the eighth at the moment; it's not at the top of the pile right now, but I expect to finish it within six months of whenever I next settlee down to focus on it, barring having to move house or change jobs or something within that six months. ]

As for editors buying habits...Just because an editor buys your story doesn't mean they think it's perfect. Every story is going to need some work, and pretty much every story that gets published goes through several revisions before it hits the presses and experiences significant changes to the text.

My point is, that editors, particularly well-known editors at major publishing houses, who are the people I will try to sell to first, are incredibly busy people.  And that there's only so much time they will have to actaully edit as well as all the other business of publishing stuff, and that a first-time author isn't reasonably going to get as much of what time as they do have as whoever is making that publisher Stephen King-sized amounts of money.  Therefore, not to send out stories unless you're pretty sure you've already made them as good as you can.

Things do change in that process, and if you want your series to be set in stone, its going to make it incredibly difficult to sell, because editors much more prefer working with an author who is willing to accept some criticism and work to make their story stronger based on feedback.

I think you may be reading "set in stone" differently from how I meant it, I'd certainly be willing to accept positive feedback if I were told it would make something sellable.  I was more thinking that offering an editor the first third of a story is only proving you can write a beginning, not a middle or an end; and sending in a beginning when you do not know what the end will be, and then realising that what you really want to make your end work is to be able to go back and fix the beginning after the beginning is already in print, seems a no-win situation for anyone, author, editor, or readers.

What I'm talking about is...you've got a character who appears in four of your...however many books you end up with. They play a part in several key scenes. They're a romantic interest for the hero. Problem is, when you try to sell the story, nobody likes this character. They're flat, distracting, and uninteresting. No matter how hard you try, this character just doesn't come across well, and it would help the story if they were surgically removed.

There may be people who can write plots which do not fall apart like a house of cards if you take out a central character, but I am pretty sure I'm not one of them.

Unless you have every detail mapped out from start to finish before you even start the first book, it's going to be practically impossible to get every book "perfect" within an entire series. You can't predict what may happen. What if you actually get tired of the this series or this character? (I know, you won't, but what if?)

I'll put it down and work on something else for a bit. I've got plenty of other things to be going on with.

The reality is, you're always going to be able to look back at something you've written and see a way you could've done it better. But if you spend all your time going back and revising, then that story will never get finished, will never be perfect, and will never have a chance to get shopped around because you won't ever be satisfied with it

I agree that you can't revise forever, but I'm not sure it isn't possible to get a story reasonably close to the best one can possibly tell it, and as close to that as possible seems a sensible goal.

Doesn't it make sense to take that first book, polish it as best you can so it's as attractive as it can be, and then start shopping it around while writing the second book?

Oh aye, and that's why I've done so.  And at this point if that editor does like it there are two more in that setting which would be one through-read short of ready to go and a third half-way through which would certainly go to the top of the to-do list if the prospect of a contract were attached.  But while that one's under consideration, I feel most inclined to work on unrelated things which could be sold to different publishers.

[pharis81]

You both have some good points. I guess I've got a lot to think about. Thanks guys.