Crafting and the Focused Practitioner

[computerking]

Note: Bold for emphasis in the following quotes is mine.
From YS181:

Channeling comes with two free Focus Item Slots (page 278). You can design the items that fit into these slots now, or later on during play. A single Focus Item Slot may be traded in for two Enchanted Item Slots (page 279). You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement
ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items created for those slots must be in keeping with the elemental theme you’ve chosen for your power.

 And from YS182:

Ritual comes with two free Focus Item Slots (page 278). You can design the items that fit into these slots now, or later on during play. A single Focus Item Slot may be traded in for two Enchanted Item Slots (page 279). You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items
created for those slots must be in keeping with the single application you’ve chosen for your power.

I take these entries to mean this: If you do not have Evocation, your character cannot craft enchanted items outside of the 1 element your focused practitioner has chosen, and if, perchance, you make a Focused Practitioner that only has Rituals(Crafting), and no Evocation or Channeling, your character cannot craft anything that isn't just a crafting enhancer.

I believe this is wrong, because it just sounds silly to me, but if it is correct, then noone can make a Focused Practitioner Crafter that can do anything useful without having to buy Channeling or evocation.

It would mean there's no game option to play the "Potionmaster" who can't cast anything, but has pockets full of useful potions.

It would mean that a Channeler remains a 1 trick pony, who can only make (Or use) enchanted items that do what he does already.

Now, I understand that by sacrificing 1 point of power when crafting an enchanted item a crafter can make it usable by anyone. Does this override the "must be in keeping with" rule, so that a Wizard-level crafter can make an armor trench coat(using Spirit) for the Fire channeler, and the Fire channeler can use it? And is the only way for a focused practitioner to have enchanted items outside of their specialty for them to have a Wizard friend?

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, there are way too many instances of "Crafting" in the search results...

[EdgeOfDreams]

I suppose your interpretation could be correct by a strict reading, but it isn't very fun that way, is it?

I'm currently running a character who started with Ritual(Crafting) as his only spell casting power.  The GM has allowed me to make various enchanted items and potions, but I was severely limited in my ability to throw together a spell on the fly.  Eventually I upgraded to Thaumaturgy, though, so it's not really an issue anymore.

[ways and means]

In the ritual section it explains that someone with ritual wards can still access landmines and effect of any denomination, you can have any spell linked with what you do, the same way ritual summoning allows you wards as long as it is used summoning ritual crafting allows you any effect as long as it is used with an enchanted item. 

[Tsunami]

Channeling and Evocation allow you to create FOCUS items, for your casting ability. A Fire Channeler can not create a Water Focus item. And Why would he want to, he has no use for it.

Ritual(Crafting) allows you to create basically any kind of Enchanted item, any Kind of Potion, and Focus items to aid you in crafting. But you have no casting ability at all.

Ritual(Prefixmancy) allows you to create Potions and Enchanted items that follow the prefixmancy. And Focus items that help with your preficmancy.
So no Flight Potion for the Pyromancer, or Fire-shooting gloves for the Aquamancer. and so on...

I think you catch my meaning.

Now, I understand that by sacrificing 1 point of power when crafting an enchanted item a crafter can make it usable by anyone. Does this override the "must be in keeping with" rule, so that a Wizard-level crafter can make an armor trench coat(using Spirit) for the Fire channeler, and the Fire channeler can use it? And is the only way for a focused practitioner to have enchanted items outside of their specialty for them to have a Wizard friend?

Sacrificing 1 shift of power makes the Item usable by anyone, even people without their own slots. Yet the crafter still pays the slots.

What you are proposing is what is called adopting items. which is absolutely legal and does not even require the sacrifice of slots. Wardens swords are the prime example, made by Luccio, carried by wardens, and each one only usable by it's "adoptive-parent".
For that purpose, the crafter creates the item with his own slots, and then gives it away to someone who has his own slots. The new owner then pays for it with his slots, at which point the creators slots are freed again.

Just be careful, because it can easily lead to the "My friend the Crafter NPC" who makes all the items... and that's somewhat lame imho.

[Richard_Chilton]

Personally, I allow enchanted items that fit the character's outlook and element.  Someone with channeling could trade one of their focus items for two enchanted items and while technically the PC wouldn't know how to make them the items could be explained as a long term focus of his power.

Say someone with Channeling: Fire wants a fire shield bracelet - something that can throw up a fire based Block when he's attacked.  He doesn't have rituals or any other way to craft enchanted items but since the rules say he can make the switch I'd say that long term working with an item can somehow 'charge' or shape it to do what he wants to do.  That while the PC doesn't understand how to do it on conscious level his magic can express itself in a way that fashions the item.

Of course if the guy with Channeling: Fire wanted a water shield, or an air shield, or any item that didn't fit his motif then the answer would be no, but items that fit the character (that rules say he can have) are fine.

Richard

[zenten]

I'm not a big fan of "Rituals (Crafting)" myself, it feels kind of broken for the cost, especially with potions and whatnot.  The RAW quoted by the OP discourages it, and I like that.

[Tsunami]

I'm not a big fan of "Rituals (Crafting)" myself, it feels kind of broken for the cost, especially with potions and whatnot.  The RAW quoted by the OP discourages it, and I like that.

For 1 refresh more you get full thaumaturgy, with crafting in all forms and flavors AND all the spellcasting thaumaturgy gives you. It's way more costeffective than Ritual(Crafting) and a hell of a lot more flexible.
So i think the limitations you impose on yourself by choosing Ritual(Crafting) are well worth that 1 point or refresh.

But that's just me.

Personally, I allow enchanted items that fit the character's outlook and element.  Someone with channeling could trade one of their focus items for two enchanted items and while technically the PC wouldn't know how to make them the items could be explained as a long term focus of his power.
[...]

As a Rule: No Thaumaturgy or Ritual -> No Enchanted items or potions. (adopting is the exception)

But that's just me. 

[Richard_Chilton]

As a Rule: No Thaumaturgy or Ritual -> No Enchanted items or potions. (adopting is the exception)

But that's just me. 

I agree that saying "it happens off stage" is a stretch, but the RAW allow the players the option.  They get two focus items and those two focus items fall into the same class as "trade for enchanted items" that all focus items fall into.  Otherwise there would be special mention that people with Channeling or even full Evocation can't trade focus items for enchanted items.

For that matter, how the heck does someone with Evocation make a focus item? There's nothing in the RAW that explains how Mr. "I toss fire, spirit, and air around" makes his focus items but he gets them.

Richard

[computerking]

Channeling and Evocation allow you to create FOCUS items, for your casting ability. A Fire Channeler can not create a Water Focus item. And Why would he want to, he has no use for it.

Ritual(Crafting) allows you to create basically any kind of Enchanted item, any Kind of Potion, and Focus items to aid you in crafting. But you have no casting ability at all.

Ritual(Prefixmancy) allows you to create Potions and Enchanted items that follow the prefixmancy. And Focus items that help with your preficmancy.
So no Flight Potion for the Pyromancer, or Fire-shooting gloves for the Aquamancer. and so on...

I think you catch my meaning.

I didn't on the first read, Because I totally forgot that Ritual can be specified to go along with a flavor of magic, not just one of the trappings of Thaum.

Sacrificing 1 shift of power makes the Item usable by anyone, even people without their own slots. Yet the crafter still pays the slots.

What you are proposing is what is called adopting items. which is absolutely legal and does not even require the sacrifice of slots. Wardens swords are the prime example, made by Luccio, carried by wardens, and each one only usable by it's "adoptive-parent".
For that purpose, the crafter creates the item with his own slots, and then gives it away to someone who has his own slots. The new owner then pays for it with his slots, at which point the creators slots are freed again.

Just be careful, because it can easily lead to the "My friend the Crafter NPC" who makes all the items... and that's somewhat lame imho.

Yeah, the Crafter NPC character is lame if overused. But at least Craft Adoption means that a PC crafter can make things outside of the Focused Practitioner's "field", that are still usable by the FP.

In the back of my mind I imagine an FP "sewing circle", making things for each other, until they each have a little bit of ability outside their normal purview.

[gojj]

Don't forget about stunts in terms of powering up potions (not sure about crafting other stuff). Maybe your character was a high school chemistry teacher so he/she's very familiar with mixing chemicals or may have access to an enhanced workspace.

[sinker]

I vaguely remember a word from Fred on channelers and foci/enchanted items a while back. It was something to the effect of this.

A channeler is assumed to have created items in one of these ways. Using something repeatedly for the same thing over a long period of time has resulted in the creation of an item, or that they have created the item with the assistance of another more skilled practitioner. The big difference for channelers' items is that they can't change/replace them without a pretty big plot justification.

As far as crafters I figure their baliwick isn't "creating items" it's "effects that can be placed in an item" which is a really broad category, but that's ok with me.

[lokpik89]

Im considering a focused practitioner done as a conjuration specialist .

Dances with wolves
enchanted a collar to conjure a wolf directed by collar wearers  will.(he could sell them to a pack of werewolves.) *cue bubble gum commercial*

or maybe he's developed a knack where he can conjure a replica of himself enter a trance and posses the construct.
body would of course be vulnerable

[lokpik89]

continued

im stumped on how that would be done.
and the refresh cost to make it possible

i keep gettin different conclusions

[Tsunami]

First off all, that would be a summoner, not a conjurer. Conjuration is the creation of items, not creatures.

Second:
Summoning is tricky. The Rules are pretty vague.

Third:
If you make a Focused Practitioner with Ritual(Summoning) he will not be able to create any items, except Focus items to aid in summoning/binding.

Ok, I didn't mean to sound that blunt, but now i'm too lazy to rewrite it. *g*



Basically, there are two ways to go about it.

1. Give him Ritual(Crafting). That would enable him to crate items that can be used to summon wolves, or whatever you can think of. They would have to be paid for with slots, and could then be loaned out to others. Or maybe create such items as one offs by using the potions rules. Which would still have to be paid for in slots.
Your items would not be limited to summoning either.

2. Give him Full Thaumaturgy. Like 1, but you can also do all sorts of spells, including summoning, binding, and conjuration.


I don't really know what more to say.
If you could elaborate a bit on what you are trying to accomplish, maybe we can help you more.

[lokpik89]

Im thinking more along the lines of the character being somewhat like an arms dealer, sorta.
you need a double to establish an alibi, a target to flush out that pesky sniper whose been taking shots at you.
some backup when you storm the lair of a formor badass and his turtlenecks the come to "insert character name" where we double your chances.
corny i know but I loved

(click to show/hide)

turncoat and billy and the werewolfs got me thinking  if the packs numbers had dwindled wouldnt it be great for a dangerous assault to escape to conjure an identical wolf.mollys solo fight seen was awesome im hoping my character can duplicate it have a bunch of doubles flee in all directions.

I read somewhere that conjuring enough frogs to overrun a park is 11 shifts but if your conjuring a single copy of yourself would that be higher or lower.

yeah gonna probrably have to go the sorcerer's route with thaumaturgy.

LoL never Sell anything to a competant conjurer.

I can understand if summoning is the only way to get animated things. book throws me a lil.