Here comes the rain again...

[ARedthorn]

My game is set in Seattle, and the players have a couple city aspects to deal with- It never rains but it pours (things tend to stack up on them- no small problems), and Here comes the rain again...

In seattle, IRL, it rains a lot, but not constantly. It's more like very frequent showers year round. It can be clear one minute, drizzling the next, or monsoon the next after that, then clear again an hour later.
Certainly causes problems for mages. I let my players compel that city aspect for a fate point at any time, but given that one of them is a mage, they really haven't yet. I've compelled it once as GM, and the fate point went to the mage, as they were the only ones to really suffer as a result.

My question is 2-fold... one, if there are mages on both sides of a combat, should anyone get that fate point, and if I have more than one mage in the group, should it go to whoever's worse off or both, or to a group pool?

two, what's the best way to run this? The one time I've done it, I set it up as a universal Block 2 against magic (3 against fire magic) and magical beings/ecto, for a light shower- more if it were a heavy downpour or outright monsoon season... but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more appropriate to do it as universal armor, since armor survives what bypasses it, and rain would be more likely to make a spell harder to fuel (reducing it's overall power) than hard to control.

[Tsunami]

My question is 2-fold... one, if there are mages on both sides of a combat, should anyone get that fate point, and if I have more than one mage in the group, should it go to whoever's worse off or both, or to a group pool?

Everyone who suffers the complications from the compel does get a fate point.

So if there are three Wizards, two on one, and one on the other side -> one fate point each.
As long as they all suffer. If one of them is standing under a big honking canvas roof or is in any other way unaffected then -> no fate point for him.

two, what's the best way to run this? The one time I've done it, I set it up as a universal Block 2 against magic (3 against fire magic) and magical beings/ecto, for a light shower- more if it were a heavy downpour or outright monsoon season... but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more appropriate to do it as universal armor, since armor survives what bypasses it, and rain would be more likely to make a spell harder to fuel (reducing it's overall power) than hard to control.

That's a good question. It can go from "It's a slight drizzle.. you're going to need more power in that tracking spell" to "It's raining like there's no tomorrow.. your magic is grounded out. Do something else"

You can also simply run it as an environmental effect. Like when gravel makes it harder to sneak, Rainfall makes it harder to cast spells. It's not always worth a compel, tough i'd do that sparingly.

If you want a technical way,
Don't run it as a block or armor against magic.
Make it harder to create magical effects. For example you could require a number of extra shifts of power for each spell. To get a 3 shift spell, they would need to summon 5 shifts of power. Or something along those lines.

[CaptFisher]

So you make the cancellation of magic worse for a mage using fire magic...does a mage using water magic have less difficulty?

[computerking]

So you make the cancellation of magic worse for a mage using fire magic...does a mage using water magic have less difficulty?

Hmm, I like that idea. Perhaps water spells get a +1 to power, but a -2 to control rolls(Since there's so much of it around)...

[HumAnnoyd]

In seattle, IRL, it rains a lot, but not constantly.

Well actually it rains here pretty much non stop.  Not heavily.  It just drizzles all day and night long.  Thunderstorms are very rare.  In nearly 15 years I have actually only heard thunder 7 times. Which is sad because I love me some thunderstorms. 

I like your solution though.  Most times the rain wouldn't be hard enough to cause too much difficulty in my opinion.  I like your solution for when it is though.

[Richard_Chilton]

I tend to think of rain as a sunrise/sunset type event.  You get caught in the rain and it downgrades any spells on you - just as if sunrise/sunset had happen.

No, I can't point to anywhere in the rules to justify this, but it feels right to have spells washed away.

Richard

[ARedthorn]

Everyone who suffers the complications from the compel does get a fate point.

So if there are three Wizards, two on one, and one on the other side -> one fate point each.
As long as they all suffer. If one of them is standing under a big honking canvas roof or is in any other way unaffected then -> no fate point for him.
That's a good question. It can go from "It's a slight drizzle.. you're going to need more power in that tracking spell" to "It's raining like there's no tomorrow.. your magic is grounded out. Do something else"

You can also simply run it as an environmental effect. Like when gravel makes it harder to sneak, Rainfall makes it harder to cast spells. It's not always worth a compel, tough i'd do that sparingly.

If you want a technical way,
Don't run it as a block or armor against magic.
Make it harder to create magical effects. For example you could require a number of extra shifts of power for each spell. To get a 3 shift spell, they would need to summon 5 shifts of power. Or something along those lines.

How about if one of my players is the one to compel it? His fate point goes to one of the mages, and I shell out 2 more? This doesn't seem too bad, but what if I have 2 players playing mages? Suddenly it becomes a way for the group as a whole to cash in fate points (my true mortal trades one out, and my 2 mages each get one?)... could be bad.

And I do like just increasing the cost. A little simpler is a lot better.

As for fire, I put that out for the sake that it comes up in the books- rain makes all magic ground out, but fire even more so.
As for water magic... ramirez's acid bolts might not be easier, I don't know... but direct use of water? At very least, they could tag the aspect "Plenty of Water."

[Tsunami]

How about if one of my players is the one to compel it? His fate point goes to one of the mages, and I shell out 2 more? This doesn't seem too bad, but what if I have 2 players playing mages? Suddenly it becomes a way for the group as a whole to cash in fate points (my true mortal trades one out, and my 2 mages each get one?)... could be bad.

Well, i would just tell them. "That is a weak compel. No Deal."
Or accept it and say "Ok, there is lots of water. Both Wizards can now no longer use magic for the remainder or the scene. Good luck fighting the Dragon without it."

But seriously, the GM can always deny compels and should definitely do so if they are weak or exploitative.

And I do like just increasing the cost. A little simpler is a lot better.

I found some mention in YS about running water. They run it as a threshold. Look under
"Thresholds - How it works - As a supressor" on YS:230
It's basically what i proposed earlier, whether you say you need more shifts, or you say that spells are reduced in strength... same thing.

If you read on to page 231 you will find some guidelines for the strength of this suppression effect. It even mentions running water.

As for fire, I put that out for the sake that it comes up in the books- rain makes all magic ground out, but fire even more so.
As for water magic... ramirez's acid bolts might not be easier, I don't know... but direct use of water? At very least, they could tag the aspect "Plenty of Water."

I would make any and all mortal magic vulnerable to running water, even water magic. Its one of the mysteries of magic, that water magic doesn't ground itself out, but is still grounded out by other running water.

[Masurao]

I would make any and all mortal magic vulnerable to running water, even water magic. Its one of the mysteries of magic, that water magic doesn't ground itself out, but is still grounded out by other running water.

About that, do you mean that you could summon a jet of water with Water Magic, but not manipulate a river to form that same jet?

[Tsunami]

About that, do you mean that you could summon a jet of water with Water Magic, but not manipulate a river to form that same jet?

In that particular situation, i would probably not let you reach across the river with your magic.
So i'd let you draw on the water if you want to do something with it on your side of the river, maybe even let you invoke "River" for the spell, but if you wan't to hit something on the other side you're dealing with the running water threshold.

It's also always a bit of a judgement call about what's fitting in the situation.

[Sanctaphrax]

This might help: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23721.0.html

Or maybe not. But it seems relevant.