Author Topic: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**  (Read 257310 times)

Offline lycina12

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #585 on: July 28, 2012, 05:09:13 PM »
I have my own theory of Harry's lineage.  I believe that Harry is a direct descendant of Merlin.  Hence the journals being handed down.  I'm making a guess that there was a child born to Merlin and Morgan Le Fey and the lineage continues through Ebenezer, Margaret, Harry and Thomas. and Maggie.  This would explain how powerful they all have been and the apprehension of the WC regarding the entire family.  The Island in Lake Michigan reminds me of Avalon which was also a place of power in the Arthurian legend.  Just my 2 cents.  ;)

Offline Glorificus

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #586 on: July 28, 2012, 08:58:10 PM »
I have my own theory of Harry's lineage.  I believe that Harry is a direct descendant of Merlin.  Hence the journals being handed down.  I'm making a guess that there was a child born to Merlin and Morgan Le Fey and the lineage continues through Ebenezer, Margaret, Harry and Thomas. and Maggie.  This would explain how powerful they all have been and the apprehension of the WC regarding the entire family.  The Island in Lake Michigan reminds me of Avalon which was also a place of power in the Arthurian legend.  Just my 2 cents.  ;)

I like this theory. And since Maggie2 ended up with the Carpenters, which was my wish also, I'm embracing this wholeheartedly!!!
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Offline thundrio

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #587 on: August 02, 2012, 12:37:29 AM »
I don't think this is threadworthy, but I had a thought as I was rereading part of GS today. Right before he recalls the scene where he arranges his own death, Harry recalls words that Lea said. I can't quote them right now but essentially it was about how since harry is a ghost he can recall the memory even though Molly took it from him.

My thought is whether or not he will remember the memory in Cold Days, or if he will forget how he wounded his apprentice.

What does everyone think?

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #588 on: August 02, 2012, 12:42:27 AM »
I don't think this is threadworthy, but I had a thought as I was rereading part of GS today. Right before he recalls the scene where he arranges his own death, Harry recalls words that Lea said. I can't quote them right now but essentially it was about how since harry is a ghost he can recall the memory even though Molly took it from him.

My thought is whether or not he will remember the memory in Cold Days, or if he will forget how he wounded his apprentice.

What does everyone think?

Didn't he remember it when he woke up in Mab's lap?
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Offline thundrio

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #589 on: August 02, 2012, 04:01:29 AM »
Didn't he remember it when he woke up in Mab's lap?

He makes two comments indirectly mentioning his suicide, but he never explicitly tells Mab he arranged his death.

the first quote is of Harry's thoughts.

"I hadn't escaped her. I hadn't escaped what she could make me become.
   Oh, God.
   And all the people who'd gotten hurt, helping me . . . They'd done it for <i>nothing</i>"(474 US Hardcover GS).

Since he is talking about not having escaped Mab, it is reasonable to think that he remembers his plan. But he could have been relieved about escaping her at the start of GS, since it WAS a convienient side effect of being dead.

the second one is slightly harder to refute, as Harry talks to Mab.

"Guess . . . you're kind of upset with me" (475 US Hardcover GS).

But I think its plausible that he just meant that Mab would be upset at him for coming so close to death.

Right after that Mab talks about how Harry cheated her, although we don't see his reaction to that. It's possible though that Mab is just assuming Harry cheated her without proof, because IIRC Harry never talks to her about it (and Harry said to Molly that Mab would know if he was lying [implying he would have to tell Mab something for her to discern if he is telling the truth]).


Anyway I think that he will remember, mostly because I think he needs to make amends to Molly. But its an interesting idea.


Offline Arjan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #590 on: August 02, 2012, 10:39:14 AM »
He makes two comments indirectly mentioning his suicide, but he never explicitly tells Mab he arranged his death.

the first quote is of Harry's thoughts.

"I hadn't escaped her. I hadn't escaped what she could make me become.
   Oh, God.
   And all the people who'd gotten hurt, helping me . . . They'd done it for <i>nothing</i>"(474 US Hardcover GS).

Since he is talking about not having escaped Mab, it is reasonable to think that he remembers his plan. But he could have been relieved about escaping her at the start of GS, since it WAS a convienient side effect of being dead.

the second one is slightly harder to refute, as Harry talks to Mab.

"Guess . . . you're kind of upset with me" (475 US Hardcover GS).

But I think its plausible that he just meant that Mab would be upset at him for coming so close to death.

Right after that Mab talks about how Harry cheated her, although we don't see his reaction to that. It's possible though that Mab is just assuming Harry cheated her without proof, because IIRC Harry never talks to her about it (and Harry said to Molly that Mab would know if he was lying [implying he would have to tell Mab something for her to discern if he is telling the truth]).


Anyway I think that he will remember, mostly because I think he needs to make amends to Molly. But its an interesting idea.
Harry did remember the whole thing about the seven words because he was counting Uriels words. Harry will remember everything including his rediscovered memories. This makes sense because the whole exercise was a learning experience according to Uriel, Lea and Demonreach all.
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Offline thundrio

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #591 on: August 02, 2012, 11:18:25 PM »
Harry did remember the whole thing about the seven words because he was counting Uriels words. Harry will remember everything including his rediscovered memories. This makes sense because the whole exercise was a learning experience according to Uriel, Lea and Demonreach all.

I know Harry will remember the events of GS, but I think he could forget the memory of arranging his own death specifically. I think this because Molly messed with his head to remove that memory, but as a ghost he was unaffected by the spell and could recall it perfectly (like he could when reminiscing about HWWB). However it seems possible that once he is back in his body Molly's spell will start working again.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #592 on: August 02, 2012, 11:20:07 PM »
I know Harry will remember the events of GS, but I think he could forget the memory of arranging his own death specifically. I think this because Molly messed with his head to remove that memory, but as a ghost he was unaffected by the spell and could recall it perfectly (like he could when reminiscing about HWWB). However it seems possible that once he is back in his body Molly's spell will start working again.

He should be able to recall recalling it though.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #593 on: August 03, 2012, 03:43:03 AM »
He should be able to recall recalling it though.
Exactly.
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Offline AcornArmy

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #594 on: August 07, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »
He should be able to recall recalling it though.

Which tells us that the memories of his soul can transfer to the memories in his brain. What Molly did was, apparently, wipe the memory right out of Harry's head, affecting his brain. It wouldn't have been a matter of just blocking the memory, like what Lea did to Susan in Grave Peril, because Mab would have sensed something like that. It couldn't be an active spell. It had to be something that Molly did right then, which would permanently alter Harry's memory for good, or Mab would have been able to see signs of it. At least, that's how it seemed to me, especially when Harry and Molly were talking about it.

And if that's what Molly did, then there was no spell hanging around afterward for anyone counterspell. It would have been like brain damage, really; a very selective form of brain damage.

So, if we assume that's true, then the fact that Harry can remember it now means that the memories of his soul can overwrite or add to the memories in his brain. Which also means that, if Harry can figure out how to do it, he can use the permanent memory of his soul to protect the more malleable memory of his brain. If nothing else, he could come up with a sort of automated spell-system to check his brain and compare the memory there with the memory of his soul, and write over the brain-memories if there were any discrepancies. Sort of like an error-checking system with computer hard drives.

Though, of course, that might be more easily described than done, but it seems like something a wizard ought to be able to accomplish, given enough time and motivation.
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Offline TomCat

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #595 on: August 09, 2012, 08:37:44 PM »
I think that "soul memory" overcomes brain memory, and the prove i have to suport this is in Grave Peril. When Leanansidhe wipes Susan Memories of Harry, she gets them back only when harry tells her that he loves her. At least that's how i see it  :)

So i think that Harry should have the memory that Molly took.
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Offline James Dickson

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #596 on: August 11, 2012, 02:55:13 AM »
Read Ghost Story again for the 3 time, and the book is still to me the worst one of the D-Files. I felt that Jim rushed the book. I won't go into everything I didn't like, but one that I have to voice/txt, How on this green earth does Harry NOT have a interactive goodbye moment with Micheal or his Brother, all he been through with them two and all he does is look on them. That was cheesy and I feel cheated, those two moments could've made this one of the great ones.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #597 on: August 11, 2012, 03:17:48 AM »
Read Ghost Story again for the 3 time, and the book is still to me the worst one of the D-Files. I felt that Jim rushed the book. I won't go into everything I didn't like, but one that I have to voice/txt, How on this green earth does Harry NOT have a interactive goodbye moment with Micheal or his Brother, all he been through with them two and all he does is look on them. That was cheesy and I feel cheated, those two moments could've made this one of the great ones.

Michael was asleep and Thomas was both busy and can't see ghosts anyway.
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Offline AcornArmy

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #598 on: August 11, 2012, 07:32:06 AM »
Read Ghost Story again for the 3 time, and the book is still to me the worst one of the D-Files. I felt that Jim rushed the book. I won't go into everything I didn't like, but one that I have to voice/txt, How on this green earth does Harry NOT have a interactive goodbye moment with Micheal or his Brother, all he been through with them two and all he does is look on them. That was cheesy and I feel cheated, those two moments could've made this one of the great ones.

No one got an interactive goodbye moment with Harry other than Mouse, because only Mouse could see him. Even Mort couldn't see him once Uriel pulled him out of Molly's mind. (Which I think says something important about Mouse, since he could see Harry, even when a major-league ectomancer couldn't.)

Regardless, though, Thomas did get seriously screwed over in Ghost Story. I'd bet that'll be a big issue between him and Harry in the future. He got screwed over in Changes, by not being warned about Harry's suicide arrangement, and he got screwed over even worse in Ghost Story, when Harry didn't visit him or have the chance to drop by and explain everything, or say goodbye. That's the kind of thing that could hurt a close family member's feelings.

As for Michael-- well, of everyone Harry knows, Michael is the one best able to deal with death, imho. I don't think Michael really needed a visitation from a ghostly Harry to be okay with how things turned out.

None of that ruined the book for me, though. I just assume that it will be handled at some future point in the series.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #599 on: August 11, 2012, 11:08:00 AM »
No one got an interactive goodbye moment with Harry other than Mouse, because only Mouse could see him. Even Mort couldn't see him once Uriel pulled him out of Molly's mind. (Which I think says something important about Mouse, since he could see Harry, even when a major-league ectomancer couldn't.)
Or it tells you something about Uriel.
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