Author Topic: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**  (Read 258709 times)

Offline omfgitsbacon

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2011, 05:52:15 AM »
Well, two important things re: Eb and the White Council.

1. We know Ebenezar knows what Demonreach is, and that Harry's the new Winter Knight. Seems logical he could put 2 and 2 together and realize that Mab doesn't like being cheated and that Demonreach's "custodian" won't just go quietly into the night.

2. Question: Have any other members of the White Council cheated death? Do they know of anyone who has? I can't see Harry as the first person a Fallen has ever whispered murderous lies to.

To the question 2, how many wizards everr in WC history are like Harry. A self-righteous depressing blowing-up buildings mage :D

Offline Taylor0401

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Oh the things a Marine will do for a Pop-Tart...
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2011, 05:58:24 AM »
I've noticed a lot of focus on what Harry did to Molly and how terrible it was.  Yes, it was an awful thing to put someone through.  Especially someone you love.  But look at it from Harry's point of view.  It had to be done, and who else could he have asked?  There was literally nobody that could have accomplished what Molly did with his memory while still leaving his mind intact.  Nobody that he could trust to be meddling in there in the first place anyway.

Someone above posted that Uriel doesn't specifically say that it was a Fallen who whispered to Harry.  I re-read it, and yes, he does.  
“That . . . that shadow. It’s an angel?”  “It was once,” he said, and his voice was gentle—and infinitely sad. “A long, long time ago.”   “One of the Fallen,” I breathed.   “Yes. Who knew how to lie to you, Harry.”

I find Ebenezar's absence pretty strange too, but I suppose there are a few possible explanations.  Although I doubt "bogged down in paperwork" is one of them haha.  I hope this is explained in Cold Days, because I have a feeling Harry's going to need all the help he can get pretty soon.  Not to mention it seems an opportune time for the Eb/Kincaid feud to either get resolved or blow up.  Given the nature of both characters, I don't see the "get resolved" option happening.

I'm not sure how he would do it yet, but I really hope that Jim brings Lash back into the series.  She was really beginning to be a great character and then bam, she's gone.  I think White Night was the first book in the series that left me sad at the end because of that.  

I'm also surprised at Maggie Sr nor Malcolm being involved in GS.  Like someone said before, with all the spirits and afterlife happenings flying around this book, I almost feel like "How could either of them NOT be included in it?"

Offline Mister

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1115
  • Dread Beast and terror of brownies everywhere!
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2011, 06:04:26 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks that Murph already suspects that it was Kincaid that killed Harry?


No, Harry thinks it too. Great minds think alike  ;)
Class oozes out my every orifice.

Offline CapnCowl

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 583
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2011, 06:09:30 AM »
With regard to Uriel's seven words: Uriel says that Mab is lying, but we know she is incapable of lying (Mr. Butcher thoughtfully wrote us a scene in this very book in which Dresden reminds us of this). On the other hand, nowhere is it said the Uriel is incapable of lying. He certainly seems to find it distasteful, but presumably he is capable of it, especially when issues of cosmic balance are involved.
Holy freaking crap, I just had a scary thought.

What if the athame gives a fae who holds it the ability to lie? Lea repeatedly calls it a "treacherous" gift. What is more treacherous than a well-placed lie? Could Uriel be trying to warn Harry about it, since Mab is now in possession of the athame? The use of the word 'lies', I think, is of absolute importance to this theory. He could have said "untrue" or "false" or "mistaken". But he specifically used the word "lies", something Mab cannot normally do willingly. And Harry has already said Uriel stacks the deck when it comes to his actions. One action accomplishes multiple goals. This one restores the balance that the Fallen threw out, but it also serves as an attempted warning to Harry about the dagger.

Offline Mister

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1115
  • Dread Beast and terror of brownies everywhere!
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2011, 06:16:24 AM »
About Molly, I agree, he knows what he did to her, and he feels terrible for it. Molly was his big concern in this book, like his daughter was in Changes. He feels responsable for everything that happens to her. And he should, to some degree. She agreed to it, after all.

Of her own free will, which would make her responsible, not Harry.

On the Molly front, what struck me was that he trusted her to tinker with his mind and she proved worthy of that trust. It must have been very tempting to change his mind for him, and add a little 'I love you, Molly' while she was about it. I think maybe she's outgrown doing stupid stuff with her magic.
Class oozes out my every orifice.

Offline huangjimmy108

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3073
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2011, 06:53:23 AM »
Okay, so Yuriel did confirm that it was a former angel who did the whispering. Thanks for that info. If the fomor is not a signitory of the accords, Mac is in deep waters right now. His pub is no safe place if the fomor gains power in Chicago. Anyway, it seems that Ramirez is back after he been reported to disappeared during changes, along with lucio. It seems they are all right. Does that means Carlos is a member of the grey council? Does his disappearance during changes means that he is one of the grey council members who help harry during the final battle at the end of changes?
But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil, damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness . . .
    . . . which could obviously be redeemed only by passing through the fiery, cleansing inferno of a wizardly digestive tract.

Offline XoVeR

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2011, 07:12:27 AM »
Wow the end of the book was such a complete mindf**k.  I never in a million years would think that Dresden would arrange to kill himself. I knew Kincaid did the actual shooting because of all the forshadowing on how he would kill Dresden, but I never thought that he would arrange the hit to cheat out of the deal with Mab.  On top of that, not even stopping to even thinking about what he was asking Molly to do, finally realizing how much she felt for him, then to ask her to wipe his memory of the conversation and store it inside her own memory bank.  I mean, he had to have known that would just completely tear apart Molly.  But wow yeah, this book leaves me even more questions than Changes did.  

When the book ended, I wanted that cheesy moment where he shows himself to his friends, alive and see the emotional rollercoaster they would feel. Other than that though, the book ended on a perfect note, and Harry waking up and say "Oh, That Hell"  had me laughing my ass off. First recognizable words after he is resurrected, and it is a smart as comment.  It was great.

Things I really love about this book.
1. Bad Ass Molly -   Dividing herself into 6 illusions is extremely badass.  
2. The Star Trek Compartmentalized Area of Molly's mind -  I am not a big star trek fan (as Dresden said in the book you are either a Star wars or Star trek person, and I am very much a star wars person), but that scene in the book was friggin genius.  All the different Molly's playing the different roles of Star Trek Characters was awesome.
3. Waldo Friggin Magical Theory Butters! - He is starting to grow into his backbone, yet still has moments of his woosy self.  Also great that he was the voice of reason among everyone.
4. Bob's Pad - That scene with Bob in his skull was great.
5. Dresden's Self Reflection - I loved all the soul searching and him realizing how much impact the decisions he has made effect not just him, but his friends and the world around him.
6. Mortimer Lindquist - Before this book, I saw him as someone who only cared about self preservation, but is obvious his self preservation was to protect his work of protecting his spirits from going mad or getting eaten.  Mortimer, to me was the heart of the book.


Things I did not like about the book.
1.  Murphy - Murphy is my favorite character in the series, but she really, thoroughly annoyed me in this book. I understand it was written this way because Butcher wanted the reader to see just how much Dresden's death, and her losing her badge has affected her, but I would never in my life imagine her becoming paranoid as much as she has.  She was definitely not herself in this book, and I wished she had any redeeming quality in the book.
2. Daniel Carpenter - The biggest freaking douche bag this series has had so far.  He tries to be self Righteous as his dad, but he ends up acting more like his Mother when she is in the I hate Dresden mode.  He is whiny, arrogant, and thoroughly annoying.
3. Only a Glimpse of Mister and Mouse - Again Mouse is another one of my favorite characters in the series and he is relegated to the very end of the book.  I wanted more mouse.


But yeah, I loved reading this book.

Offline JinElusion

  • O. M. G.
  • ***
  • Posts: 31788
  • The Sword of the Evening
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2011, 09:08:25 AM »
So much badassness in this book, especially Molly. Happy to see her as a real fleshed out character now.

On a sidenote: Any thoughts on the parasite mentioned by Demonreach at the end of the Book? And I wonder if Harry still has his amulet...
"Even if I go to hell, I will live until the end of the world, and if the world does not end; I will destroy it myself." - Grahf, Xenogears

"There's gonna be some stuff you're gonna see that's gonna make it hard to smile in the future." - 2pac

Offline Goblynpunk

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2011, 09:40:10 AM »
Consider the whispering Fallen...

In previous stories, it's been mentioned that the Knights of the Cross are the countering agent to the Denarians. Since the Denarians are capable of choosing to relinquish their coins, they are still free-willed agents. I don't see how, should one of the Nickelheads have chosen to whisper a lie to Harry, it could be considered "cheating".

There are other Fallen Angels, though...one who is a great deal more powerful than Nicodemus and his crew, and Harry has suspected that That One has been cheating for some time now.

"Pleased to meet you...won't you guess my name?"

Offline Taylor0401

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Oh the things a Marine will do for a Pop-Tart...
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2011, 10:25:43 AM »
Quote
There are other Fallen Angels, though...one who is a great deal more powerful than Nicodemus and his crew, and Harry has suspected that That One has been cheating for some time now.

I don't remember this... what exactly are you referring to?

And the Denarians are not free willed beings.  Only the people possessing the coins still have free will.  The Fallen themselves are still technically Angels and subsequently have never been given free will.

Offline omfgitsbacon

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2011, 11:47:55 AM »
Consider the whispering Fallen...

In previous stories, it's been mentioned that the Knights of the Cross are the countering agent to the Denarians. Since the Denarians are capable of choosing to relinquish their coins, they are still free-willed agents. I don't see how, should one of the Nickelheads have chosen to whisper a lie to Harry, it could be considered "cheating".

There are other Fallen Angels, though...one who is a great deal more powerful than Nicodemus and his crew, and Harry has suspected that That One has been cheating for some time now.

"Pleased to meet you...won't you guess my name?"

He Who Walks Behind is a demon right?

Offline dantesparadise

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Abandon hope, all ye who enter here
    • View Profile
    • Lost: Midnight Mist Preview
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2011, 11:56:12 AM »
So, which of the Fallen whispered in Harry's ear in the flashback from Changes? The Fallen looked like a shadow, so maybe Nicodemus?

Also, it was interesting that Mab lied to Harry. Harry always thought that the Fae were incapable of lying, but Uriel confirmed Mab's lie in the first of his seven words.


It's not a lie personally if you really believe what you are saying  regardless of what reality dictates. I think Mab is arrogant enough to believe her own words.
I died.  There was no life flashing before my eyes.  There were no harps.  There were no white robes.  There was no land of milk and honey.  There were no wings…

Offline itari

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 835
  • lost and delirious
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2011, 11:57:42 AM »
He Who Walks Behind is a demon right?
No. He's an Outsider.

Offline Autra

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2011, 01:31:17 PM »
No, Harry thinks it too. Great minds think alike  ;)

Heh.

Re-reading it last night, and I came to that part. It seemed to be a little more than Murph just suspecting, too...

Offline huangjimmy108

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3073
    • View Profile
Re: Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2011, 02:06:40 PM »
I think someone in this forum had speculated before that maybe that Harry is some sort of Namer. The end of Ghost story, where Yuriel seems to be really upset when Harry shorten his name to Yuri but blink and said that calling him Mr. Sunshine is appropriate is quite a circumstancial evidence on that theory. What do you guys think?
But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil, damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness . . .
    . . . which could obviously be redeemed only by passing through the fiery, cleansing inferno of a wizardly digestive tract.