Ghost Story Book Club - Chapters 46-FINISH **MAJOR SPOILERS**

[Vikermac]

I meant tied more in the sense that there is probably a lot going on with the WC we don't know about, and I'm sure McCoy is in the thick of it.  He might want to find Harry's killer, but he might also be too preoccupied.

[Vikermac]

Anyone else have characters in mind that you were pretty well convinced you'd see in action in Ghost Story - but didn't?

Malcolm Dresden
Ebenezer McCoy
Sgt Rawlins

Mac.  I think this is the first story without Mac, and I honestly missed his wise council and good beer.  Admittedly, Harry can't eat/drink but I wonder if Mac would have reacted/sensed/known about Harry's presence, which would have given us some clue about who/what Mac is.

[john4200]

I meant tied more in the sense that there is probably a lot going on with the WC we don't know about, and I'm sure McCoy is in the thick of it.  He might want to find Harry's killer, but he might also be too preoccupied.

Oh, you meant "hands full". Wrong metaphor!

Well, I find it unlikely. "Boy, sorry I did not have time to avenge your murder, I was busy for 6 months after you were killed. Lots of paperwork, you understand."

[Vikermac]

Well, I find it unlikely. "Boy, sorry I did not have time to avenge your murder, I was busy for 6 months after you were killed. Lots of paperwork, you understand."

   I laughed out loud.

[huangjimmy108]

Guys, Do you think the fomor sign the unceli accords? I think not but I cannot confirm it. Does anyone can? Do you guys think that Mab have Harry's pentacle along with Magi SR's ruby? Is the 'Die alone death curse fulfilled? And that part about the whispering Fallen, is it one of the Dinarians or it is just another fallen? I thought fallen inside a coin cannot do that unless the coin holder is arround and the other fallen outside of the 30 in the coin are not allowed to do anything without prmision. Or is it something else entirely. As far as I can gather, Yuriel never actually confirm it is a fallen. He just say it is something in the same league as a fallen. Can anyone shed any light in the matter?

[john4200]

A live Denarian can do most things a human can do, and more, of course, depending on their special powers. Nicodemus could turn into a shadow and move around as a shadow. If he is still alive, I think he is a top candidate for the whisperer. Although, thinking about it again now, I wonder how any Denarian could get into the church with their powers intact. As you say, Uriel never confirmed it was a Denarian. Or maybe it was in Harry's head? Some remnant of Lasciel's shadow that wasn't totally converted by Harry?

[SeptimusKiller]

Hi, everyone, first post.

With regard to Uriel's seven words: Uriel says that Mab is lying, but we know she is incapable of lying (Mr. Butcher thoughtfully wrote us a scene in this very book in which Dresden reminds us of this). On the other hand, nowhere is it said the Uriel is incapable of lying. He certainly seems to find it distasteful, but presumably he is capable of it, especially when issues of cosmic balance are involved.

The Fallen sent Harry along one path with a seven word* lie. It seems logical that Uriel would think it fitting to give him back his free will with another (a white lie in this case, and one that gives Harry the, perhaps misguided, courage to stand up to Mab). Bottom line: Harry is wrong. Mab has more control over him than he thinks she does.

*-Btw, anyone else excited over what is, to me at least, clearly an homage to Rothfuss?

Mab cannot intentionally lie. She can say something out  of ignorance. Plus she probably has bullied the majority of her knights.

[omfgitsbacon]

I don't think anyone has attempted to dispute that fact, not do i disagree that the fallen whispering to him was ultimately responsible for him attempting to end his own life. What I take umbrage at is the fact that he USED molly to further those ends. Sure the fallen may have convinced him that he had to kill himself to protect those he loved, but I certainly doubt that it told him he had to involve Molly to the extent of being completely complicit in the death of the man she loves most in the world. She flat out told him "do you know what this is going to do to me?" in terms of destroying her heart, and he forged on ahead sure of the righteous nature of his actions.

Let's be sure of one thing here, i'm not saying that this has destroyed my faith in Harry, quite the contrary. It's made him seem even more human, more relatable, as he has F'd up huge here. But it's still, by far, leaps and bounds worse than anything he has consciously chosen to do in the series so far, and to do it to someone that he loves makes it worse still.

I agree it makes him more human, but concerning children Harry is willing to sacrifice other people's happiness, similar to when the Archive was kidnapped by the Denarians. He said he had to sacrifice Michael's dream to save her. Let alone this is HIS child were talking about here surrounded by the entire Red Court. Another point of note is I feel that he firmly establishes (or tries too) that his relationship with Molly is just that of mentor and apprentice. I must point out that Harry is extremely clueless and forgetful about how women view him (Luscio and Molly situations)
^ i wanted to point that out.
I disagree with that being his ultimate conscious choice, what he did to Michael and placing his life in jeopardy takes the worst choice in my book.

[kellys91]

Another masterpiece by Mr. Butcher!
The one thought I had that I haven't seen mentioned yet...is Daniel being groomed for the sword. I know this may be a bit too obvious, but it is a thought.

[flamingmonkey----]

Guys, Do you think the fomor sign the unceli accords? I think not but I cannot confirm it.

Even Hand, the short story in Dark and Stormy Knights

(click to show/hide)

describes a dispute between Marcone and a Cantrev Lord of the Formor.  The short story suggests that the Formor are a signatory.

[omfgitsbacon]

Guys, Do you think the fomor sign the unceli accords? I think not but I cannot confirm it. Does anyone can? Do you guys think that Mab have Harry's pentacle along with Magi SR's ruby? Is the 'Die alone death curse fulfilled? And that part about the whispering Fallen, is it one of the Dinarians or it is just another fallen? I thought fallen inside a coin cannot do that unless the coin holder is arround and the other fallen outside of the 30 in the coin are not allowed to do anything without prmision. Or is it something else entirely. As far as I can gather, Yuriel never actually confirm it is a fallen. He just say it is something in the same league as a fallen. Can anyone shed any light in the matter?

I do not think the Fomor signed the Unceelie Accords, because their existence is a congregation of beings that desire revenge (according to one of the Fae) + the original Fomor were kicked out of the Courts. No need to obey the laws of the civilized. I believe that the pentacle might still be on Harry's body, I do not remember reading anything about the pentacle dropping anywhere, but if it did then I assume Lea has it since she has a promise to fulfill. 2 Theories on the death curse: 1. Yes its done because he "officially" died, soul separated the body but was returned. 2. No because is it arguable that people in a comatose condition have their souls there? Then what about Harry's? No one can answer this question as of yet because I am very sure there are 30 Denarians, but more Fallen Angels exist. The 30 Denarians were part of a Fallen Angel's Guard squad. (Need to re-read that hmm). I dont have my books with me I need to return home, but ill look it up.  

Edit: Ahh to the post above me, never read Even Hand

[dantesparadise]

Harry is now antihero/magnificent bastard for what he did to murphy thomas and above all Molly.  Let the world burn indeed.  gahhhhdammit jim!!! awesome...

Oh and Rag Lady tactics pretty badass...

[SeptimusKiller]

Harry is now antihero/magnificent bastard for what he did to murphy thomas and above all Molly.  Let the world burn indeed.  gahhhhdammit jim!!! awesome...

Oh and Rag Lady tactics pretty badass...

He only wronged Molly

[john4200]

Harry is now antihero/magnificent bastard for what he did to murphy thomas and above all Molly.  Let the world burn indeed.  gahhhhdammit jim!!! awesome...

Dresden may have said let the world burn, but what he actually ended up doing was destroying the entire Red Court of vampires, which probably saved thousands of innocent lives every year. Sure, it didn't result in peace on earth, but it was certainly worth doing, and I think heroic. So what if he had a moment of weakness and doubt, and decided to sacrifice his life in order not to risk becoming a monster. The only mistake was, in a moment of weakness and despair, pressuring Molly to be complicit in his death, but that does not make Dresden an anti-hero.

[Daredeval]

Well, two important things re: Eb and the White Council.

1. We know Ebenezar knows what Demonreach is, and that Harry's the new Winter Knight. Seems logical he could put 2 and 2 together and realize that Mab doesn't like being cheated and that Demonreach's "custodian" won't just go quietly into the night.

2. Question: Have any other members of the White Council cheated death? Do they know of anyone who has? I can't see Harry as the first person a Fallen has ever whispered murderous lies to.