Author Topic: loup garou vs Warden Sword  (Read 10006 times)

Offline Masurao

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 11:40:40 AM »
Yeah, that is my guess too... but that sounds too easy somehow...

Somehow I fail to see your definition of easy, when it comes to bringing a sword to a loup-garou-fight...

Offline Ren

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 12:42:57 PM »
I and my group seem to recall reading a description somewhere that warden sword were made with Silver in the metal, though how much I couldn't say, so I'm going with that for my own game. It's more a matter of inheritance, and from the books it seems that the Warden's Swords were custom-made for each Warden as a badge of office and thus not many would have been handed down. The question is, how is inheritance defined? IS it law, intent or bloodline? Murphy got her earrings from a grandmother, but was she given them by the grandmother or handed them over? I don't think a simple will wwuld suffice, I think there has to be some sort of connection between the original owner and the current owner, whether it be by blood or love or whatever. But does it have to skip a generation? I.E. can a husband pass a silver object to his wife before he dies?
I think I'm getting picky on the technical definition of "Inheritance" and for the purposes of my game I'm going to define Inheritance as "Passing of an object from one person, the original owner, to another who is either of the original owners bloodline or the original owner considers to be family, i.e. inheritance by intent." 
The original question that generated this thread came form my campaign and planning for an upcoming battle that involves a Denarian riding a Voudoun Priest, a Loup-Garou, a Swamp-dwelling Clan of Were-Gators (The traditional kinds of Weres) and the Cult that follows the Denarian. One of the player characters is a Warden with a Warden sword that he was given by a retiring warden, though it was not truly inherited as they were not family. Another player is  Pure Mortal but but was recently adopted by a former Grey Warden who gave her his sword so that IS an inherited weapon so she could use it against a Luop-Garou just fine even if she couldn't actually use the Warden Abilities of thew sword (It's just a pointy stick).
Yes it will be an ugly battle and no they are not alone in it.
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Offline fantazero

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 01:10:07 PM »
One of my Characters is Brian Moman, who makes Shaft look like Bee Arthur. Brian will use his mighty intellect and manly good looks to tear the Loup apart with his bare hands

I fixed that for you  ;D

Offline Masurao

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 02:41:32 PM »
Inherited silver, I think, means an item that had emotional value of some kind, or at least was in the possession of the family for a sizable amount of time. You couldn't have your granny buy a bunch of silverware and say, "Here, sonny, I leave this to you" and then simply hand it over. Even with all the best intent, that's not inheriting, it's simply giving stuff away.

I do agree somebody doesn't have to die to give something away as an inheritance and perhaps a retiring Warden could be acceptable for that. Of course, he'd had have used that Sword for quite a few years, or during some seriously stressful endeavours. I'd also say that the receiving person would need to be special to the original owner of the silver item, if it isn't an inheritance after a death. (Otherwise your great-great-grandmother's silver platter wouldn't count, as she could have hardly known you to be special ;))

Offline kihon

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 02:48:52 PM »
"...sounds too easy..."

Really?  There are THREE of them in the WORLD.  To easy....

I disagree with "too easy" -- but I do agree that they would satisfy the catch (of anything)...

Offline zenten

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »
I'm curious about the whole "warden's swords being silver" thing, because it impacts whether or not they're going to satisfy the Catch of a Fey.

Offline Richard_Chilton

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2011, 06:16:07 PM »
A warden's sword slices through spells, but not necessarily the effects of a spell.

For example:
I toss a fireball at a warden.  The warden uses his sword to slice it in half, ruining the spell.
I toss a fireball at the ceiling above a warden.  If burning debris fails on the warden then it falls on him - and his sword can't change that.


If a warden with a warden's sword had been there when the Saint originally leveled the curse then he could have sliced "the spell", but there is no active spell on the Loup Garou.  It is a man under the effects of a spell, not a spell to be cut through.

So in my opinion, a warden's sword wouldn't work on a Loup Garou that way.

Looking at the sliver side of things - the amount of silver in a warden's sword would be barely a trace element (if it is there at all - I don't remember it being there but I could be wrong).  It's like talking about the trace amounts of silver that you find in water being enough to hurt a werewolf - that is it's stretching the concept beyond what fits.  That's before we debate the word "inherited".

Storywise, if all you need is to call out the local warden to deal with the beast then it stops being a special, rare, and dangerous creature - and becomes a monster of the week.

To sum up:
No active spell to be slice through.
Not enough silver to count.
Dead warden, grinning Loup Garou.

Of course, this is only my opinion - using the RAW and the world as written.

Richard

Offline polkaneverdies

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2011, 07:04:05 PM »
The swords aren't made of silver. There is a woj kicking around about them the latter half of which talks about their mundane side.

To paraphrase "They are made with the best available alloys at the time of their construction by a master of the craft.

It would be helpful if someone could search serack's thread for the actual quote. That is a little challenging to do from my phone.

Offline Ren

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2011, 09:12:53 PM »
In my game the sword that was inherited did have silver used in its construction. Why? Because someone spent a fate point to Declare it so...8)
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Offline LordScythe

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2011, 10:47:12 PM »
Jim goes into very great detail about Warden Swords in the books.  Can't remember what book it is but it is very specific and repeated in many of them.  I do recall them being referred to as "silver sword of the Wardens"  Dead Beat, chapter 39. 

Captain Luccio  explains to Harry about Warden swords in White Knight!   Check out Chapter 22 of White Knight if you want to know why. That will explain everything without me posting spoilers! I can state that they are definitely not mass produced and it is very unlikelyt for them to be inherited. 
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2011, 01:29:47 AM »
No luck finding the quote that polka mentioned.

Away from books right now and so unable to fully reply to LordScythe.

"silver sword of the Wardens" could just describe colour.

Offline Serack

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2011, 02:13:24 AM »
The swords aren't made of silver. There is a woj kicking around about them the latter half of which talks about their mundane side.

To paraphrase "They are made with the best available alloys at the time of their construction by a master of the craft.

It would be helpful if someone could search serack's thread for the actual quote. That is a little challenging to do from my phone.

I believe that's from the text.  However a quick search in the pertinent books for "material" on my nook didn't turn it up.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2011, 02:19:19 AM »
Huh, I didn't know you payed attention to this forum.

Or do you just have a quasi-magical ability to sense when people need WoJ help?

Offline TheRealMe

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2011, 03:52:15 AM »
From Bob the Skull, in Fool Moon:

"Only a silver weapon can hurt a loup-garou, and not only that, the silver has to be inherited from a family member."

Also, in game terms, at least, a Warden's Sword can only cut through a level 6 enchantment.  I'm pretty confident that the MacFinn bloodline curse is stronger than that. 
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 03:57:18 AM by TheRealMe »
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Offline LordScythe

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Re: loup garou vs Warden Sword
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2011, 07:04:22 AM »
Read the Luccio stuff she tells Harry everything about them!  I have read the series at least 6 times and listened to audio once.  I am sure of my facts... Not to mention I would never post without rereading. I concede that it could be color in that post as well, however I am positive it is referring to the material and color.  That might be a ask Jim question.  My theory is it would be redundant to refer to it as silver over and over again unless it was going to be important later on.  The Material it is made of would seem a more important fact than it being just a description of color. 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 02:14:39 PM by LordScythe »
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