Impromptu summoning

[Masurao]

Don't think that this is Lawbreaking. The Laws don't protect animals, and this kind of magic can be used for things other than killing.

Just to see if I got the gist of this: if you'd use Spirit magic to tip a boulder over an edge, cause an avalanche, flatten a village, would it be like this? Would it be Lawbreaking? Or is this where intent comes in? An accidental or intentional makes the difference?

[UmbraLux]

Don't think that this is Lawbreaking. The Laws don't protect animals, and this kind of magic can be used for things other than killing.

If you mean it's no more law breaking than any other mortal evocation or thaumaturgy, I agree.  Much of the lawbreaking specifics depend on intent and situation. 

[jybil178]

To reiterate, it's an invalid argument.

Your wall of text appears to boil down to "don't allow X because it might break one or more Laws".  I'm simply pointing out the same argument applies to any purely mortal evocation or thaumaturgy.  They may be used to break one or more Laws.  Unless you're disallowing all such mortal magic, the entire argument is invalid. 

Have I misunderstood your wall of text?  Were you not arguing against allowing animal summoning because it might be lawbreaking?

That said, I do think we're straying from helping the OP come up with a system for his desired magical trappings.

Ok, hehe I understand what you are saying now.  I wasn't meaning to say "No, this is a bad idea, don't do it", I was just making sure he knew the full consequences of the actions he was intending on performing.  Letting him know the laws that may be broken, the gray areas that are stepped into, and all the negative side effects with animals that have their mind's f'd with.

Sanctaphrax, yes technically it won't be true lawbreaking when he forces the animals to do his bidding.  It his however a gray area, in that you are practicing a forbidden form of magic to begin with.  It would make a lot of people uncomfortable, even if you only did specialize in animals.  Honestly, when I start on this particular subject, I immediately begin thinking on the stereotypical serial killer.  A lot of them start off by torturing and killing small animals, before they eventually move on to people.  Its already in his nature.  If he is a person that would break the will of another living creature, then what is to stop him from just moving on to higher life forms?

And yeah, there are a lot of other things he could use this kind of magic for, but he didn't really show a lot of fluffy bunny, tree hugging intent with it.

The big question I have for the OP, is what is the rest of the character concept?  When I first heard it, my first thought went towards DnD Vampires, and their ability to control "creatures of the night" and such.  Is the concept a darker kind of character?  Or is it a kind of druidic concept, with the character being far more in touch with nature.  Both of these kind of ideas could work, and obviously there could be a lot more.  Each one would work very differently though, so I don't think I'll go into any mechanic ideas till I reread over some stuff, and get a response.

[Sanctaphrax]

@Masurao: It's all very ambigous. I don't have a definitive answer for you.

@UmbraLux: Yes, that is what I mean.

@jybil178: Point taken.

[JustinS]

I'd do it as evocation with a different effect flavor.

If you want to have animals and such on call, then use thamatergy to create a stack of aspects of "Rats waiting to help" and such, and either toss them on top of skills to do things, or on top of evocation effects.

[Radijs]

The big question I have for the OP, is what is the rest of the character concept?  When I first heard it, my first thought went towards DnD Vampires, and their ability to control "creatures of the night" and such.  Is the concept a darker kind of character?  Or is it a kind of druidic concept, with the character being far more in touch with nature.  Both of these kind of ideas could work, and obviously there could be a lot more.  Each one would work very differently though, so I don't think I'll go into any mechanic ideas till I reread over some stuff, and get a response.

Well it was for several potential concepts. Varying from the vampire idea, calling bats, wolves and other nasties.
Other ideas I toyed with where mages who'd make some kind of temporary elemental constructs out of elemental power. Ice beasts and the like.

[benign]

I believe the power "Greater Glamours" allows you to effectively summon a creature to do your bidding. It's an ectoplasmic construct, rather than an actual creature, and you can only summon one, but it's a precedent in the rules allowing that sort of thing, and might be a basis from which you could develop something more comprehensive.