Help I have a Fate point hoarder?

[Chris_Fougere]

IMO it depends on how its affecting the rest of the table.  If no one has a problem with it, then I'd just let it go (but be prepared for one massive FP expenditure at some point).  If it is a problem for the rest of the table, then it needs to be worked out someway just as if he had some other behaviour that was negatively impacting the enjoyment of the group.

Or you could simply declare a reset to base Refresh in between "case files" which may not be the way the game plays but works perfectly in keeping with the feel of the books.  Lots of give and take and building during the case and then the next one...back to square one.

[Taran]

I agree with what many people have said:  Compel, Compel, Compel.

Compels are supposed to complicate a characters life.  If he's accepted enough compels that he has 10-15 FP's then he's probably gone through some hell to earn all those.  If not, then they weren't very good compels.

In combat, have someone kick dirt in his face(blinded maneuver) and compel him to be unable to target enemies.

Story compels should have some lasting effects.  His Master told him not to go in his lab, but maybe he has a "curious" aspect.  Compel it and the consequenses will make for a good story which may lead to MORE compels...

If they're bad (or good) enough compels, he may pay them off and, if not, it will make things more interesting.

[Morgan]

Do the other players have an issue with his hoarding? If one of the ways he is saving his fate points is by tagging aspects that others have created or discovered for free then he is also basically taking fate points away from them. I always like to have player created aspects on the table free for anyone to tag, but there is the rule that whoever created or discovered the aspect has the right of first refusal if someone else wants to tag it for the free first time.

Have the other players stop letting him get all those free tags on their aspects on the table. Though it really seems like a unsuitably punitive measure, but he really is messing with the game economy and the other players resources if he does all that free tagging of their aspects.

If you and everyone else have already tried talking to him about his hoarding, what is his response or reasons for his hoarding behavior?

[toturi]

Do the other players have an issue with his hoarding? If one of the ways he is saving his fate points is by tagging aspects that others have created or discovered for free then he is also basically taking fate points away from them.

Have the other players stop letting him get all those free tags on their aspects on the table.

First of all, the other players have to have an issue with his tagging the aspects they created. Not "I am the GM and I think you should have a problem with his tagging your aspects" but a genuine "I have a problem with his tagging my aspects". One of the ways DFRPG encourages player cooperation is creating Aspects for others to tag, forcibly stopping free tags on other people's created aspects would be negating the whole point of such characters.

On the Compel issue, I am not sure if this would be a good idea, without knowing what Aspects the character has.

[Silverblaze]

After much deliberation I have decided to post my thoughts on this.  I tend to be a little extreme and blunt so do take a bag of salt with this opinion.

In a recent campaign one PC had hoarded 20 fate points due to a lack of understanding how they work.  I had hoarded 16 due to lots of compels and a smidge of hoarding.  I honestly feel naked if I have less than 4 FP at a given time.  That's my comfort zone...though I have been known to be a very defense minded player.  I've also spent down to 0 and accrued sponsor debt.

4-5 fate points is not an issue in my mind at all to have hoarded.

I honestly feel having a short sit down with the other players to see how they feel about his behavior, then one with him is a wise course of action.  I also feel compelling him would help a lot.  Teach him it is a renewable resource.

if nothing works, do not cater to his need to have others create free tags unless it is in sync with the actions players or NPC's had in mind anyhow.  Some people have to learn the hard way.


Do not however, if it isn't hurting anything, (which the simple act of hoarding is not ; at least not in my opinion) simply leave him be...it's a non issue.

[Becq]

I'm not sure I agree that a 4-5 Fate reserve qualifies as 'hoarding'.  To my mind, Dresden probably accumulated at least that many to throw into the big fights.  On the other hand, 20?  Ok, that seems a bit excessive.

But in any case, if you are giving out Fate points reasonably, then he is paying for that Fate in terms of complications -- so I don't see it being too horrible a thing.  What's the worst case scenario?  Well, he spends them.  Isn't that what they are for?  And even that is limited by the need to have enough applicable aspects to channel them.

[braincraft]

He might change his tune if he sees other characters doing awesome stuff and outshining him through liberal expenditure of Fate Points. Or, possibly, this is just how he has fun, and his character gets to be the one that's always totally safe due to having tons of FP to blow on fallback defense invocations.

[Tedronai]

his character gets to be the one that's always totally safe

Well, except that, in order to be accumulating these FPs, he's having to accept compels that expose him to danger...

[Haru]

One additional question: is he creating aspects himself? Fate is a little irritating, because maneuvers don't really do anything at first, and maybe your player needs to get comfortable with that mechanic first. Maybe do a short scene where he is the only player involved. He can create aspects to tag and save his fate points, but usually there is not enough time, so he might have to use a shortcut, and that is where the fate points come in. And even if he can do without fate points, he will have seen the power of maneuvers.

If he is a wizard, is he the last to get his action in an exchange? If that is the case, the others will probably always have done some maneuvers and declarations, and he has got a buffet of aspects to choose from, so he won't really need any fate points or maneuvers anyway.

[toturi]

Well, except that, in order to be accumulating these FPs, he's having to accept compels that expose him to danger...

It depends on how the FPs are given out at the table. For example, if the GM decides to start the game with a murder being committed, and the GM ties that to several Aspects of the PCs as Compel to get them to investigate (IIRC, there is an example along these lines in YS)

[crusher_bob]

I think that trying to convince your player to not hoard fate points by making vicious compels is the completely wrong thing to do, since what that shows is that you always need some fate points in the bank to resist them.  I mean, if you are using fate points 'like you are supposed to' and don't have any more when, "Now, eat these kittens!" comes along, how are you going to feel about the GM?

[Taran]

I don't think that anyone is suggesting "vicious" compels, just interesting ones.  But compels with no teeth aren't very interesting.  Giving someone a FP to get an adventure going is fine but, in general, they should complicate things somewhat.

And yes, I gave an example of blinding, which I guess, can be a vicious compel depending on the situation, but I was just trying to give a combat example that might not be AUTOMATICALLY accepted.

I do have to agree that 4 or 5 FP's isn't overly much

[Silverblaze]

Compels: yes.

Viscious Compels: No...I'd say only use those rarely per player anyhow.

[knnn]

"If you strike me down now, I shall accumulate more fate points than you can possibly imagine"

[TheMouse]

I think that trying to convince your player to not hoard fate points by making vicious compels is the completely wrong thing to do, since what that shows is that you always need some fate points in the bank to resist them.  I mean, if you are using fate points 'like you are supposed to' and don't have any more when, "Now, eat these kittens!" comes along, how are you going to feel about the GM?

Yeah. This.

Don't target the dude for accumulating fate points. That'll just prove to him that he needs to do it, thus encouraging the behaviour.

Now, I don't seriously suggest doing anything like counting up Compels for each player and making sure that they match. But you should try to treat all your players about the same in that regard.

Keeping piles of fate points isn't a problem unless you make it a problem. Targeting him makes it a problem. If he feels that he needs a safety net, let him have his net. He'll either grow comfortable without having a net, or he won't. Don't poke and prod him.

If for some reason you feel that it's a real problem, talk to him. There's no reason to ever attempt to solve out of game problems by doing stuff in game. All that does is piss people off.