Anyone simplify the DFRPG?

[finarvyn]

I'm just trolling for suggestions and/or links at the moment.

I've got some players who are interested in a Dresden Files style campaign, but they are mostly D&D types who have never played in a FATE-type rules system. When I tried to explain all about aspects and such they got this glassy-eyed look and said they'd rather play something else.

They have played Amber Diceless and if I could put together something similar to that they might be interested. Limited power options, limited choices, etc.

I hate to go so far as to create pregen template characters for them, but that may be an option.

So ... I'm wondering if anyone has put together anything like "FATE lite" or "DFRPG lite" so that I can try to ease them into the game.

[UmbraLux]

Have you seen these?

• TriFold FATE
  
• TriFold Fantasy
  
• Aspect Only FATE
  
• Compact FATE

(All compiled by TheMouse on RPG.net.)

There's some Dresden specific helps here.

Beyond the generic, were there any specific questions / concerns they had?

[TheMouse]

Have you seen these?

• TriFold FATE
  
• TriFold Fantasy
  
• Aspect Only FATE
  
• Compact FATE

(All compiled by TheMouse on RPG.net.)

Thank you for plugging my stuff. (:

Just for clarity, none of those are Dresden-light. They're all my own interpretation of generic Fate-light. So while they're meant to introduce people to a really boiled down version of the game, there are some differences between my version of Fate and the one present in DF RPG. Still, they've been helpful for me and some other folks to introduce new players.

Aspects-only is the farthest from Dresden. It's also sort of incomplete, because I mostly threw it together just to have a version of the rules that only uses Aspects and stress tracks.

Anyway, have fun with those, and I hope they're helpful.

[devonapple]

I find the PDQ (Prose Descriptive Quality) system has the potential to be a decent "gateway" system to get folks ready for FATE.

[EdgeOfDreams]

You might try pointing out the parallel between Fate Points and D&D Action Points, see if that helps them grasp it.

[TitaniumMan]

FATE isn't hard, your guys just seem unwilling to give it a shot.

[devonapple]

FATE isn't hard, your guys just seem unwilling to give it a shot.

Conversely, FATE isn't exactly easy, either. It has a lot of potential, and the basics are relatively easy to absorb, but the bulk of the threads on this and other forums stand as a testament to the great latitude it can sustain, and the obligatory noodling required of each game group to come to a consensus about how it will be applied. I've had players who got used to DFRPG call shenanigans on it being "rules light."

[devonapple]

Richard_Chilton did a wonderful intro to the DFRPG which I adapted to bullet form, if this helps:

A bit about the FATE system:
The FATE system isn't about dice rolls. Characters are assigned Aspects.
•   Aspects are like Metaskills
•   Define who your character is
•   If an aspect says you can do something, then odds are you can do it without dice rolls.
•   If dice rolls are needed you can 'tag' an aspect for a +2 bonus or a reroll.
•   You can tag multiple aspects for every roll and you decide whether or not to tag them after you roll
•   Any aspect can only be tagged once per roll.
•   The first time you tag it you tag it for free, but after that you need to pay a FATE point to tag them.

FATE points drive the game.
•   You start with a some (fewer if you buy Powers and Stunts)
•   You gain others during play.

FATE points can be spent in many ways:
•   gain a +1 for a roll
•   tag an Aspect for a +2
•   declare that you have something that you normally wouldn't have, etc.

During play you can make Declarations
•   Use a skill or paying a FATE point
•   Declarations add to the game.
•   Subject to GM oversight

Skills all have a word associated with them - something like Average, Good, Epic - and they basically describe how good you are when you use that skill. For example, if you have Investigation at Great you're at the level of the people on CSI.

During play you can (with GM permission) gain more powers and stunts, but this will cost you refresh points (which means starting play with fewer FATE points). But beware - refresh points are tied to the concept of free will and should you ever reach zero refresh your character becomes an NPC.

[TheMouse]

Fate isn't terribly difficult. It is a bit unusual for someone not used to it. For example, it's abstract in some strange places.

So, a, "you're not trying hard enough," sort of attitude isn't helpful.

[devonapple]

I also adapted Richard_Chilton's setting summary into a bullet-point format:

The Dresden Files
•   A series of urban fantasy novels set in a world much like our own.
•   Features various fantasy elements added from a variety of sources

Mortals are Ignorant
•   The vast majority of people in this world are normal humans:
•   They don't believe in magic and when they see it they rationalize it as something else.
•   There is no supernatural force behind this, merely humanity's need to see the world in rational terms.

Mortals are Dangerous
•   Involving normal humans in a supernatural struggle is often called "going nuclear" because of the risks.
•   Were mortal authorities made aware of the supernatural, humanity would likely declare war on them.
•   Human players and supernatural creatures alike respect and fear the threat of an angry mob.
•   That said, most cities have a handful of cops (or other people) aware of the supernatural, who deal with how it affects the rest of the world.

Supernatural Players:
•   full-blown wizards
•   sorcerers
•   people with minor talents
•   otherwise normal people with Faith-driven powers   
•   at least three different kinds of vampires
•   ghouls
•   werewolves
•   fairies
•   supernatural halfbreeds

Note: all "full-powered" wizards are part of the White Council. This council has declared that there are seven laws of magic which they enforce on all humans that use magic.

The Nevernever:
•   A magical world that exists along with this one, but doesn't map directly to the real world
•   Changes slowly over time; only experimentation can reveal what is on the other side of the barrier.
•   Can be entered by wizards, some sorcerers and minor talents, some monsters, and occasionally by accident.
•   Contains fairy kingdoms, spirits, monsters, demons, goblins, and anything else you can imagine.

Fairies
•   Most live in the Nevernever, but some minor ones live in the real world.
•   Broken into Summer Court, Winter Court, and "Other" (called Wyldfae)
•   The most powerful fairies can't harm you unless you've entered into a deal with someone from fairy.

Halfbreeds
•   Virtually everything that lives in the Nevernever can interbreed with humans.
•   The majority of these offspring are fairy half-breeds (Changelings): will have to eventually choose to either A) live as a normal person (giving up all their fairy powers) or B) become a full fairy (giving up their humanity and the bulk of their free will).
•   Other halfbreeds are called Scions, and can come from a variety of supernatural creatures.

Unseelie Accords
•   One of the reasons that humanity can remain ignorant of the various things out there.
•   Most of the powerful groups of creatures have agreed to police their own.
•   Each group has total say over its own membership and defines how they can peacefully co-exist.
•   Most of it boils down to ignoring each other and letting every group get on with what they do.
•   There are rules in there for duels, self defense, paying a wergild to settle transgressions, and what is a legitimate reason for war.
•   Important: there is no spirit of the rules, only the letter: some will twist the accord any way they can.
•   Signatories include: both fairy courts, the White Council (a.k.a. the wizards), three vampire groups, and several Dragons.

As an example of how the Accords work, in the early Dresden books the hero (Harry Dresden, a wizard of the White Council) knows that there is a group of vampires in his city but cannot do anything about it unless they cross certain lines. He knows that he could battle them but if he attacked them outside of what is allowed by the Accords he would risk starting a war between the vampires and the White Council.

Old World Manners
•   Oddly enough, most of the 'refined' monster types (vampires, fairies, etc) respect these.
•   If you are an acknowledged guest they won't attack you.
•   If they give you their word then they will keep it.
•   You can usually avoid a fight by being polite and staying out of their way.

Into this mix comes your PCs. You get to pick your template and powers and then join in the fun. Odds are you won't want normal people to know about any powers you have, but there are enough weird things out there that you won't feel alone. While some gaming groups might have a different focus, the setting assumes that you will be one of the people trying to keep the world safe from dark forces while keeping humanity ignorant of the things that go bump in the night.

[sinker]

•   If dice rolls are needed you can 'tag' an aspect for a +2 bonus or a reroll.
•   You can tag multiple aspects for every roll and you decide whether or not to tag them after you roll
•   Any aspect can only be tagged once per roll.
•   The first time you tag it you tag it for free, but after that you need to pay a FATE point to tag them.

It's likely best to use "invoke" instead of "tag" here, avoids confusion later when they find out what a tag really is.

[admiralducksauce]

I'm just trolling for suggestions and/or links at the moment.

I've got some players who are interested in a Dresden Files style campaign, but they are mostly D&D types who have never played in a FATE-type rules system. When I tried to explain all about aspects and such they got this glassy-eyed look and said they'd rather play something else.

Dude.  The best way I've found to explain Aspects to D&D gamers is "Aspects are like your D&D character class".

Your character has the aspect "Barbarian".  He can spend a FP and get bonuses for doing things barbarians do.  He gets FP when his Barbarian...ness makes life hard for him.  When he can't read the warning sign on the rickety bridge.  When he's expected to be civilized.  When people won't sell items to him because he's a filthy barbarian.

[UmbraLux]

Conversely, FATE isn't exactly easy, either.

FATE itself is pretty easy...it's just applying it to a world / setting which can make it look complex. 

At it's core FATE consists of:

• Entities (PCs, NPCs, cities, locations, zones, environments, etc) described by:
  • Aspects (all have one or more aspects)
  • Stunts and / or powers (optional)
  • Skills (optional)
• Areas of conflict generally including:
  • Physical
  • Mental
  • Social
  • - some implementations add, rename, remove, or change some of these
• Action types:
  • Attack
  • Block
  • Maneuver
• Modifiers include:
  • Aspects
  • Skills (optional)
  • Stunts and / or Powers (optional)

It starts looking complex as that is codified across different scales...whether time, area, entity, or something else.  Each of the above core concepts is used and reused throughout Dresden Files.  And some items, such as skills, stunts, and powers for characters are detailed.  The page count adds up.  And, much as I like DFRPG, it is overly verbose.   ;)

[Set Abominae]

Dude.  The best way I've found to explain Aspects to D&D gamers is "Aspects are like your D&D character class".

Your character has the aspect "Barbarian".  He can spend a FP and get bonuses for doing things barbarians do.  He gets FP when his Barbarian...ness makes life hard for him.  When he can't read the warning sign on the rickety bridge.  When he's expected to be civilized.  When people won't sell items to him because he's a filthy barbarian.

Good example.

[Lanir]

I love the Amber Diceless system. Had quite a bit of fun with it. If I had to explain Fate to someone who'd only played Amber and D&D I think I'd compare it more to Amber.

Your character's skills are a lot like Amber attributes broken down into more specific areas. D&D style attributes are basically not present in either of the other systems.

Aspects and Fate points are a lot like Stuff in Amber. Like skills, Aspects are broken down a bit more than their Amber equivalent. You have multiple Aspects and because the world setting for the Dresden Files is more about gray areas than Amber is, the best Aspects can be looked at in both a positive and a negative light, like the "barbarian" example above. So Aspects handle whether you have positive or negative Stuff, while Fate points are the actual measure of it. The usual style for gameplay is to complicate the life of the characters by drawing on or "compelling" Aspects in a negative way and both the GM and players can get involved in that (subject to GM approval of course). Then when the plot comes to a climax you have resources to burn.

One important note about Aspects is that they're all over. They're basicall soundbyte sized descriptions of what something is, what it's tied to, etc. In Amber you're encouraged to add details to your surroundings subject to GM approval. In the DFRPG you do the same thing by declaring an Aspect but there are rolls involved. This may feel a little complex at first but mostly as a player you should just keep in mind that you should just keep in mind that like in Amber you're a lot better off interacting and taking a role in the narrative of the story than just hiding behind numbers.

Powers are actually very similar to powers in Amber. Stunts are a bit like having a rank in an Amber attribute. You're good enough with one area of a skill that it requires special description.

The rest past that is details. You'll have to decide how much nuts and bolts you want them to handle and how much you're willing to smooth over in the first few games to get the ball rolling. Fate has some really wonderful ideas. To be honest, as much as I like Amber, if I ran it again I'd be incorporating some of the ideas I've seen in Fate and the DFRPG. But the downside of that is that they're new ideas. I don't think it's really possible at this point to start a new group in Fate without handling a lot of the mechanics for them. Must see if Fred has a World Conquest fund going or something.