Reviving my Major Lash theory post

[itshim]

I'd always considered that for Lash to exist outside of Harry's head she would need to possess some soul and she got this by taking some of Harrys when she sacrificed herself. It may be that Harry himself (through his unconcious) authorised it, as I don't know whether you can just take and use someone elses soul without it being the blackest of black magic (which would then completely change Lash and negate the point of her sacrifice).

My reading of WoJ was that Lash would be around in the second half of the series, as a ghost or something else, to help him in the nevernever.

Nigel

[AcornArmy]

I think the OP is right, at least in so far as what we think Uriel did in Small Favor was not what he actually did, or at least not exactly what he did. I've suspected that since Mab, at the end of the book, told Harry that only he would be able to answer the question of what exactly Uriel had done to him.

At the end of White Night, Harry discovered that Lash had left him a gift of knowledge in the form of musical talent. Presumably, Lash's musical talent, made a part of Harry's mind when Lash took the psychic bullet-- either by Lash's design or by chance. Serack's theory may be entirely correct, and the knack for Soulfire was also a gift from Lash, and Harry just didn't realize he had it until Uriel bumped his metaphorical elbow. Even if the truth isn't quite that direct, though, I'd guess that something of Lash's knowledge or mind did give Harry a vital piece of whatever is required in order for a human to use Soulfire.

At any rate, I think that, whatever it was Uriel did, it was something to do with Lash or Lash's remnants. And a direct side-effect of it was to give Harry access to Soulfire. I suspect it also had something to do with the way Harry's left hand was able to dextrously snatch the denarius out of the air before it could touch him, in SmF, too. "The burned hand teaches best," was the first quote Harry saw when he opened Uriel's copy of The Two Towers. Maybe Uriel did something to help Lash put herself back together, intending that Lash should become Harry's future teacher.

If that were true, though, I have no idea why she wouldn't have popped up by the time of Changes. When Harry mentioned the headaches at the beginning of Turn Coat, I thought for sure that was a sign of life for Lash, but between TC and Changes, the headaches apparently vanished. And still no Lash. So who knows? Maybe the headaches were something completely different.

[Serack]

Serack
My take:  When Lash rebelled against her originator, the bit of lasciel's energy that was giving Harry access to hellfire was either destroyed of fundamentally changed to the point where it was no longer the same thing...  I.E. Soulfire and Hellfire are 2 sides of the same coin and that coin had now flipped.  So yah he wouldn't have access to hell fire any more (He didn't obviously) and instead he had access to soulfire, he just didn't know it/didn't know how to access it.

The problem I have with this statement is that you are essentially suggesting that a mere imprint of a time immortal being was able to give Harry access to Soulfire.  The reason I think that Lash allowed Harry the use of Hellfire is because that is the nature of the Denarians.  They offer power, and Lasciel herself is known as The Temptress.  If that is her nature, then offering a small sampling of power in exchange for binding his soul is well within her nature, thus the imprint is allowed to give access to Hellfire.

Harry gave Lash, a mere shadow free will, to go against her creator, but to say that the mere shadow that was Lash gave Harry access to Soulfire, and allowed him to use it after she was no longer present within him as far as we know, I find that to be an extreme stretch.

Furthermore, in Turn Coat, Uriel himself converses with Harry, informing him of the good side actually doing something, just not in a noticeable way at first, then Mab appears and gives us a little backstory regarding Uriel.  If Lash gave Harry the ability to use Soulfire, then you are essentially saying that Jim Butcher himself planted Uriel, a freaking Archangel, in the series as a red herring.  Possible? Yes.  But I disagree.

The question I most want to ask Jim is:  Can any mortal pratictioner use Soulfire, or does mortal access to soulfire/helfire require "angelic" sponsorship?  Does this sponsorship require active investment from the sponsor?

I'm guessing that Hellfire, having a powersource outside the mortal, requires active sponsorship, but that soulfire, once granted, sources it's power from the mortal's own soul and thus once the mortal has access (in this case/theory without knowing about it or using it) it doesn't have to be maintained.  

Bob uses very similar language to describe how Harry had access to Hellfire from a bit of energy from Lasciel, and how Lash subsisted from a bit of energy from Lasciel.  When Lash rebelled against that energy, a fundamental paradigm shift occured for her, and part of this was that she flipped the coil over from helfire to Soulfire.  If my assessment of the requirements for Soulfire as listed above is accurate (I.E. no requirement for active sponsorship since the power source is the mortal's own soul), then the echoes of this paradigm shift are still enough for Harry to have had access to it, even without Lash still actively sponsoring it.

If Soulfire does require active sponsorship, then it had to have come from Uriel, and he has to still be actively "sponsoring" Harry.  If not, then the source of the ability is just as likely to come from Lash as from Uriel.

Edit: slightly reworded the "question

[AcornArmy]

The question I most want to ask Jim is:  Does mortal access to soulfire/helfire require "angelic" sponsorship?  Does this sponsorship require active investment from the sponsor?

I think the most likely answer to this question has to be no. Harry's Hellfire was sponsored, but it didn't use any of his soul when he cast it. And the sum total of the sponsorship appeared to be the ability to use the Fallen's Hellfire for his spells.

With the Soulfire, Harry is burning up his own soul. He's mentioned reaching into the place in his mind where Soulfire resides when he casts it. If Uriel is involved, he doesn't seem to be doing much. Maybe Uriel gave him the initial access, but after that, it seems to be all Harry. This appearance could be misleading, though, I guess.

[Serack]

Slightly reworded the question

Can any mortal pratictioner use Soulfire, or does mortal access to soulfire/helfire require "angelic" sponsorship?  Does this sponsorship require active investment from the sponsor?

[Crawker]

Slightly reworded the question

I'm pretty sure that the second part of that question would get the answer "I'm not gonna tell you!" in a singsong voice. Because if the sponsorship required active investment each time Harry used soulfire it may either confirm Uriel helping Harry on a regular basis, or Lash still being around in some form.

But I bet at the very least a mortal needs to be nudged in the right direction by an angelic being, at least the first time.

After all, isn't the whole point of soulfire, making the user more of who they are meant to be (achieving their full potential in terms of not just power, but also in terms of their character)? If everyone could use it, there would be a lot fewer problems in the world. Harry was a good person before, but he couldn't always use it. And he's made morally grey decisions since and still has the soulfire going strong. So I'd assume it needs to be activated by an angelic being, rather than by being good.
Same goes for hellfire, considering the bonuses it gives to spells, wouldn't every evil guy with a hint of magical talent be using it if you could just get it by being naughty?

[Black Dane]

As stated, we know from WoJ that Lasciel is coming back, and she is going to be major league pissed off (the whole woman scorned thing).  IMO, her story has the potential to make Nick’s efforts look like those of just some ordinary school yard bully.

Harry may not have only changed Lash, but in doing so permanently ripped away a part of Lasciel.  We don’t know just how significant the Shadow is to the whole of a Denarian, but my thought is that a major part of the original goes into the creation of a Shadow.  My rationale for this is the connection to hell fire, and the strength needed to provide/maintain that connection.  Think about the pain experience when something is called soul wrenching.  For humans, it’s emotionally painful.  Now imagine the impact on an entity of nothing but soul.  The effect could be both physical and emotional, and incredibly amplified.

I’d love to see not only Lasciel return for revenge, but also to have been driven so insane by Harrys’ actions (the whole unintended consequences thing) that even Nick wants her stopped.  If Lash returns, it probably will not be until the BAT, but I could see Lasciel showing up a book or two before, and setting the whole thing off.

[contraducktory]

In support of this theory.

The only way for Lash to be gone, is for her to be 'absorbed' when the coin is taken up.

So, what if the damage to his brain, didn't get rid of Lash, but just made her inaccessible.  She'd still be there, and possibly be able to act/influence, but not able to directly interact as she did before.  So Lash is still in Harry's head, and when he's 'healed', or maybe was healed by Mab, Lash could return.  That would leave Lasciel still in the coin, and able to claim a victim.  While Lash is able to help Harry.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

The only way for Lash to be gone, is for her to be 'absorbed' when the coin is taken up.

Why do we think that's the only way ?

It being the only way anyone who has talked to Harry about know about is one thing, but we know the Denarians regularly trash information about themselves.

[Brayt]

Just a thought,

What if the part of harry's soul that is used up is actually taken by lash for two reasons;
1) she actually has been removed from his brain and knew this would happen when she protected him and (bc of newfound free will) was un willing to die. So she took the soul to use to manifest later as a teacher slash guide in later books IE GS

2) part of harry's soul had been tainted by temptation and in order to totally protect him she not only chose to remove herself from brain but also the damage to soul. This is a win win win. Harry can use soulfire instead of hellfire without taint, lash can exist as a seperate entity and JB doesn't have to worry about things getting too easy for harry with a fully cooperative lash in his mind.

Note: be gentle, I can't spell nor have I read all of the posts here so if I have stepped on any toes or repeated someone elses work or ideas I am sorry and it was not intentional

[kazimmoinuddin]

dresden been exposed to a lot of dark mojo, i wonder if lash fed on this, or perhaps took it with her.

[tinygargoyle]

Why is there all this talk of Lash coming back?
It would be a perfect fit to just hide away untill Lasciel's new host comes up to sic on Harry and they sense each other.

[hassman]

Furthermore, in Turn Coat, Uriel himself converses with Harry, informing him of the good side actually doing something, just not in a noticeable way at first, then Mab appears and gives us a little backstory regarding Uriel.  If Lash gave Harry the ability to use Soulfire, then you are essentially saying that Jim Butcher himself planted Uriel, a freaking Archangel, in the series as a red herring.  Possible? Yes.  But I disagree.

I have argued the counter to this before.  Uriel has not directly supported Harry (that would be cheating), however, he can supply power to proto angel Lash, who still resides within Harry, thus Harry has access to SF.  Uriel is not a red herring, but he is not acting in nearly as straight forward a manner as is thought.  (this also fits into JB is evil and wants to confuse the reader theory)

[Sm0kEyNy]

ignore me im jus markin this to peruse at my leasure

[Silkki]

Harry will clearly recieve a fixed up body when he respawns. This naturally means any nasty brain damage will vanish and Lash will be born again!

Words Revive and Lash in topic made me post this : )