Scions: revisited

[Masurao]

I just read through an older, now inactive, topic about Scions and what kinds people could come up with, which interested me, because I had something like that in mind myself. So I made this topic, because the forum suggested it in an oh so polite manner

Anyhoo, one of the things I noticed, was that few to none of the concepts of Scions had 'Marked by Power'. Now, I do not wish to suggest that all Scions should take that trait, but consider the following: you are the child of a powerful being (I've seen anything from Dragons, to (Demi-)Gods, to elemental beings), with quite a bit of oomph yourself. Most of the nasty would love such a (s)pawn to use in their games (which is probably best portrayed as an aspect or some such), but it also works the other way around: people see in you a way to get to your parent.

Of course, if you are the spawn of a capricious elemental, this wouldn't make sense. But the spawn of Ferrovax? Even if he isn't intent on (ab)using you, you might be of interest to a lot of others around you. For example: "He's the son of a Dragon, let's hide behind him, they wouldn't hurt him, would they?" or "He's the son of some god, imagine what we could do with his blood!" or "She's the daughter of Venus, if anyone can make him fall in love with me, it's her!"

Now, I realize some of these things could be compelled by the GM, but I feel that having the blood of something ancient within or its mark upon you, often warrants more than just an aspect on your part. Maybe you are a love-child of some almighty dragon, but you might take after your mom, or perhaps you were spawned from the metaphorical loins of Venus, but perhaps your powers lean towards sexual fertility instead of love/lust.

In short (otherwise I'll keep on rambling): I feel that 'Marked by Power' is something of a balancing factor, so you won't use your bloodline just to justify loads of powers. I am in no mean experienced with this game or system, so I am just spewing my thoughts on this matter


Having said my piece, I was also thinking about types of Scions myself and I had to think about the spirits often seen in Native American and Western-African mythology. Think about the Coyote, Raven, or Anansi (spider), Papa Legba. My thoughts about these spirits that they are not represented as a single, unified being, such as Odin, or Zeus, but rather a collection of spirits with their aspect. For example, Coyote is a trickster, but in the stories, he varies from a cultural hero, to a darker prankster, to the creator, to a teacher through trickery and as such there would be many spirits of Coyote, representing his different face. (As opposed to, for example, Zeus, who is a pretty defined type of deity.) They might all be linked to some communal well of knowledge or conscious, but not always and not actively.

A Scion of such a spirit would most likely be 'Marked by Power', because it seems more legit to me that a spirit like that develops a passing interest in a human being, imparts some measure of power upon the mortal and then departs, only to check in every now and then. This means the powers of such a Scion could range from Sponsored Magic, to a non-Faerie variant of Glamour, or some shapeshifting powers. I would deem such spirits as too chaotic and whimsical to actually mate with a human being often, so they simply leave their imprint upon someone who impresses them sufficiently. This type of Scion could be relatively free the involvement of his/her 'parent', but, as befitting the trickster, he/she could be whisked away at any moment as well.

p.s. I haven't had the time to read up on a lot of what's on here, such as the Custom Power thingamajick... So if I seem ignorant... It's because I am

[Sanctaphrax]

Marked By Power would certainly make sense for many scions.

But not all, and using it as a balancing factor seems unwise.

Partly because it infringes on the metaphorical space of an Emissary Of Power, partly because fluff should not be used to balance out mechanics, and partly because taking whatever powers you want is not something that needs to be punished.

You should definitely read the Custom Power threads. But not because they have anything to do with this, because they don't.

PS: What thread inspired this one? My guess is: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18620.0.html

[DFJunkie]

While I certainly understand what you're saying, being the offspring of some wildly powerful entity could certainly cause other supernatural beings to tread carefully around you, but then again it might not if the character is simply the inconvenient yet inevitable product of banging mortal women (something that a truly disturbing portion of the supernatural world seems interested in doing) I still think it should be up to the player. 

[Crion]

I'm just going to start by saying that if Sanctaphrax is right about the thread that inspired this one, then I'm just proud that it is still being read :-D

Now, for thoughts!

1) I mentioned in that previous thread my thoughts regarding a Scion being "Marked By Power." Here's the quote:

Scions are different from those "Marked By Power." Scions are literally the descendants of an entity of power with mortal blood. Changelings can be considered as Scions if you chose to lump them as such, but in theory, anything that is a mix of a non-mortal supernatural entity and a mortal can be considered a Scion.

Some non-changeling examples from the series include Mouse, Glau, and Kincaid. Unless you knew exactly what you were looking for, or viewing them via the Sight, you would have no idea that they were non-mundane entities. Therefore, not marked by power.

If you are familiar with mythology, all of those children and descendants of gods are technically Scions. Hercules and Perseus are probably the two easiest to name and remember in Western cultures, and if you remember them, they appeared just like normal people, except they were "better" in some ways.

Also, keep in mind that "Marked By Power" does something to you that others can recognize as a sign of your status. Now, I'm not saying that you can't be marked by just being a Scion, but I do feel as though it shouldn't be used in the way you are suggesting, especially since very few Scions are blatantly obvious (again, the aforementioned Kincaid). Everyone assuming that the son of Ferrovax or another entity can be a useful tool seems more like a compel instead of requiring the power, and showing that heritage could be a compel by the GM to start showing Dragon-esque features.

Of course, it is the player's/GM's choice, after all. I have a character in my game that is "Marked By Power" because her parents made a deal with a demon, so now she carries the Mark even though she isn't actually tied to the entity (yet), so who am I to throw stones?

2)  Interesting idea with the Totemic-style entities; I'm glad to see them brought up from time to time, and those times don't come often enough. While I like your approach with the "Marked by Power," I'm still uncertain if you'd really want to have it there, especially with a totem such as Coyote. As you noted, he's a trickster that does serve his purposes (good and bad), and if you look into the stories, there is always a lesson to learn from Coyote that may not have been obvious. In this example, why would Coyote want to leave something as blatant as a mark to be seen by everyone? How would this "Mark" prove to be beneficial? If it can be more of a problem, then why not leave it as the Aspect to be compelled?

3) Random thought: have you ever played the game Scion: Hero/Demigod/God by White Wolf? While the system is clunky, they do have some interesting approaches to these children with "divine ichor," whether in the form of magic or the things they carry.

4) Santaphrax brings up a good point with the custom powers thread. I haven't read it in full yet, but it is something I have bookmarked, just in case I need that really good (or really twisted) idea. . .

[Falar]

Personally, for Marked by Power and Scions, I feel it's a matter of the character concept. Like, say, for instance, if you have someone who's a child of Poseidon and gets all this cool power because of that - however nobody is looking at him and saying, "This kid is Poseidon's son - what he says is what Poseidon wants," then it doesn't make sense that he would have Marked by Power.

Actually, conversely, I could see a character who was a Scion of Zeus ending up being Marked by another power. After all, didn't

(click to show/hide)

the Leanandsidhe* make a play for Molly

, which is clearly just her trying to get someone powerful allied to her, even though their power from another spot. I can totally see one of the Courts of Faerie (or even Ferrovax) wanting a Scion of a powerful god (or even a smart Scion of a relatively weak god) as their Emissary because - hey, more juice that they don't have to supply! What's not to love?


_{* I hope I spelled that right.}

[UmbraLux]

Now, I realize some of these things could be compelled by the GM, but I feel that having the blood of something ancient within or its mark upon you, often warrants more than just an aspect on your part. Maybe you are a love-child of some almighty dragon, but you might take after your mom, or perhaps you were spawned from the metaphorical loins of Venus, but perhaps your powers lean towards sexual fertility instead of love/lust.

In short (otherwise I'll keep on rambling): I feel that 'Marked by Power' is something of a balancing factor, so you won't use your bloodline just to justify loads of powers. I am in no mean experienced with this game or system, so I am just spewing my thoughts on this matter

The "balancing factor" should be the character's high concept.  Your Decedent of a Water Djinn shouldn't be throwing blasts of fire around, Ferrovax's Favorite doesn't run around with dragon's bane, Coyote's Touched probably isn't overly serious and blunt, A Dryad's Daughter probably can't arm wrestle a troll successfully, etc. 

Marked by Power is more the "something scary might have my back" power.  Something powerful just might take it personally if someone shows you disrespect.  Then again, it may be too busy this week...

Having said my piece, I was also thinking about types of Scions myself and I had to think about the spirits often seen in Native American and Western-African mythology. Think about the Coyote, Raven, or Anansi (spider), Papa Legba. My thoughts about these spirits that they are not represented as a single, unified being, such as Odin, or Zeus, but rather a collection of spirits with their aspect. For example, Coyote is a trickster, but in the stories, he varies from a cultural hero, to a darker prankster, to the creator, to a teacher through trickery and as such there would be many spirits of Coyote, representing his different face. (As opposed to, for example, Zeus, who is a pretty defined type of deity.) They might all be linked to some communal well of knowledge or conscious, but not always and not actively.

A Scion of such a spirit would most likely be 'Marked by Power', because it seems more legit to me that a spirit like that develops a passing interest in a human being, imparts some measure of power upon the mortal and then departs, only to check in every now and then. This means the powers of such a Scion could range from Sponsored Magic, to a non-Faerie variant of Glamour, or some shapeshifting powers. I would deem such spirits as too chaotic and whimsical to actually mate with a human being often, so they simply leave their imprint upon someone who impresses them sufficiently. This type of Scion could be relatively free the involvement of his/her 'parent', but, as befitting the trickster, he/she could be whisked away at any moment as well.

Sounds like a fun concept!

[Richard_Chilton]

It really depends on what the Scion's relationship to its parent is.

For example, when Harry asked one Changeling "have you tried asking your dad" the answer was "he basically thinks he did all he did needed to do when he didn't kill my mom and if anything I owe him".   Yeah, trolls make lousy dads, but myth and legends are full "special parents" who didn't care about their by-blows.  Sure, Zeus protect Hercules a bit when the hero was a baby, but where was Zeus when Hercules was forced to be a transvestite slave because Hera sent a Hercule a rage that made him kill his wife and kids (again)? Probably laughing his ass off.

To me, "Marked by Power" implies that the power cares if the character lives or dies and that it's a power.  If the parent isn't someone powerful (a Lord of some type) or doesn't care then the character is just another half human freak.  If the parent cares about the character and isn't a power then that's still not enough.  Maybe a Troll can be a loving parent, but if he isn't a Troll Lord, Troll Prince, Troll King, Legendary Warrior Troll or whatever then the kid isn't marked by a power.

And sometime the parent might be a power and might care but doesn't want to drag the kid into any fights.  Hides the kid away, visits him on weekends, views him through an enchanted mirror - whatever, but there's no public relationship.  If your high concept is "Secret Love Child of the Wakening War God" then I don't see Marked by Power being appropriate because there's nothing to link him to his parent.


On a general note about Scions, I'd say the most important thing is to work out what powers the parent has.  It's rare for a scion to have different powers from its parent - so working out that list can define the 'upper level' that the character can buy to without coming up with a reason other that "I'm embracing my heritage and getting super human toughness".

Richard

[devonapple]

I agree that Marked By Power should not be a required must for a Scion, especially considering the way Kincaid,, Changelings and Jann have been characterized in the fiction. If something related to one's ancestry is important, it can be Compelled by the High Concept. Marked By Power is its own characterization choice, with different plot expectations.

[Masurao]

Thanks for all the input, people, this is really helping me with the game, as it is hard to sit down to read YS without being compelled by an active game/group.

Marked By Power would certainly make sense for many scions.

But not all, and using it as a balancing factor seems unwise.

Partly because it infringes on the metaphorical space of an Emissary Of Power, partly because fluff should not be used to balance out mechanics, and partly because taking whatever powers you want is not something that needs to be punished.

You should definitely read the Custom Power threads. But not because they have anything to do with this, because they don't.

PS: What thread inspired this one? My guess is: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18620.0.html

I see now that aspects are a better way of balancing things out, rather than using a Power. Always having played more mechanics/rules-oriented games, DFRPG is certainly a refreshing challenge And, yes, you were right about my inspiration.

I'm just going to start by saying that if Sanctaphrax is right about the thread that inspired this one, then I'm just proud that it is still being read :-D

Well, it looked interesting, so I read through it

Now, for thoughts!

2)  Interesting idea with the Totemic-style entities; I'm glad to see them brought up from time to time, and those times don't come often enough. While I like your approach with the "Marked by Power," I'm still uncertain if you'd really want to have it there, especially with a totem such as Coyote. As you noted, he's a trickster that does serve his purposes (good and bad), and if you look into the stories, there is always a lesson to learn from Coyote that may not have been obvious. In this example, why would Coyote want to leave something as blatant as a mark to be seen by everyone? How would this "Mark" prove to be beneficial? If it can be more of a problem, then why not leave it as the Aspect to be compelled?

You might be right, I hadn't really considered the fact that Marked by Power creates an actual marking. As I said in my opening post, I just felt that in many instances some balancing factor might be justified. Compels do seem the way to go, though, my understanding is growing!

3) Random thought: have you ever played the game Scion: Hero/Demigod/God by White Wolf? While the system is clunky, they do have some interesting approaches to these children with "divine ichor," whether in the form of magic or the things they carry.

Actually, the inspirational thread was the one to cue me in to the existence of Scion by WW. Ever since I've lost my active, IRL gaming group, keeping up to date with new games is hard. I might have to check it out, seeing as I am a compulsive RPG-book-buyer. Xp