Possible Uses of Social Attacks in Combat

[ways and means]

I was trying to think of a list of good example of when social attacks would make sense in physical combat.

Heres what I have so far
Slaughter Smile - When Wearing the Head of the Uber-ghoul you have just slaughtered and dripping with blood and gore most enemies will think twice about attacking you and will run a mile when you smile at them in that insanly visious kind of way. (Intimidation + Uberghoul Head Aspect).

Talk Down- In the midst of fight talking up your game might be able to convice you enemy to flee or effect them in a way that they hesitate in a crucial moment so you can run them through. (one reason why social concequence might stop physical ones).

Does anyone have any better examples?

[EldritchFire]

Your Boss Thinks This is a Bad Idea - When you know of their boss, and they are kind of scary, roll Deceit vs. Empathy, possibly invoking their high concept for a boost. If you win, they are momentarily flustered. This could either be an attack for social stress or--perhaps better--a maneuver.

-EF

[Tedronai]

For it to be appropriate as an attack, success has to leave them rather more than momentarily flustered.  Even a Mild Consequence lasts (barring supernatural healing powers) not less than one full scene after 'healing' starts.

[UmbraLux]

I was trying to think of a list of good example of when social attacks would make sense in physical combat.

I'm curious to see if you come up with any that would logically take time (week plus) to 'heal'.  The only ways I can think of to cause lasting social damage in combat requires either set up or targeting an opponent's aspect(s)...which is pretty much the same a set up.

[ways and means]

I'm curious to see if you come up with any that would logically take time (week plus) to 'heal'.  The only ways I can think of to cause lasting social damage in combat requires either set up or targeting an opponent's aspect(s)...which is pretty much the same a set up.

Personally I think the sight of someone slaughtering everyone and then looming over you smiling is the sort of thing that will stay with you for a while at least in your nightmares.  There are all sort of war stories about people having nightmare about one particular scene in an entire campagin.
 
I see social combat an arguement and taking someone out as winning the debate, a social take out shouldn't be fatal but should mean  that you win the arguement. If you are trying to persuade someone to quit a fight then the take out would be them leaving the fight, concequences would be on the line of  'a shadow of doubt' , 'hesitant', 'unsure' etc.  

[UmbraLux]

Personally I think the sight of someone slaughtering everyone and then looming over you smiling is the sort of thing that will stay with you for a while at least in your nightmares.

Quite possibly, but isn't that mental trauma?
 

I see social combat an arguement and taking someone out as winning the debate, a social take out shouldn't be fatal but should mean  that you win the arguement. If you are trying to persuade someone to quit a fight then the take out would be them leaving the fight, concequences would be on the line of  'a shadow of doubt' , 'hesitant', 'unsure' etc.  

The definitions of 'social' all revolve around interactions with groups of people.  Relationships.  Community.  My definition of a social consequence begins with the same basic tenet - it's about relationships with others. 

I think that may be a large part of where we differ.  Trauma I classify as mental you're classifying as social. 

[JayTee]

Spiderman and Deadpool, the Gods of mixing Social and Physical combat, accept no substitutes!

[Ala Alba]

Honestly, I think this topic is confusing Social attacks and consequences with Mental ones.

Getting someone to back down from a fight isn't a Social consequence unless doing so makes the person look like a fool or coward to his associates or something.

Likewise, frightening someone is entirely Mental unless that has some effect on the person Socially(loss of face, etc).

[ways and means]

Honestly, I think this topic is confusing Social attacks and consequences with Mental ones.

Getting someone to back down from a fight isn't a Social consequence unless doing so makes the person look like a fool or coward to his associates or something.

Likewise, frightening someone is entirely Mental unless that has some effect on the person Socially(loss of face, etc).

So your interpretation of social stress is that it is entirly external to the person, that in my mind makes social combat kind of pointless from a non-people in orginisations kind of game. By the way if persuasion isn't the right sort of action for social combat then what does social comabt in tale other than snubs and rhetoric.

[Arcane]

Blood In The Water - Whatever the reality, the one who has suffered this social consequence in battle is seen as weaker and more vunerable than he was previously thought to be.  Enemies who were biding their time now perceive an opportune moment to move against him, while subordinates who were kept in line by intimidation may openly defy him or even attempt to usurp his position as leader.

[UmbraLux]

So your interpretation of social stress is that it is entirly external to the person, that in my mind makes social combat kind of pointless from a non-people in orginisations kind of game. By the way if persuasion isn't the right sort of action for social combat then what does social comabt in tale other than snubs and rhetoric.

Persuasion could be either mental or social.  Depends on the trappings.  Are you using a cold argument of logic and hard facts?  Or an argument laden with emotion and symbolism?  Is your intent to persuade a single individual you're debating?  Or perhaps you could care less what that individual thinks but want to persuade an audience.

Decide intent then chose mechanics to fit.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Blood In The Water - Whatever the reality, the one who has suffered this social consequence in battle is seen as weaker and more vunerable than he was previously thought to be.  Enemies who were biding their time now perceive an opportune moment to move against him, while subordinates who were kept in line by intimidation may openly defy him or even attempt to usurp his position as leader.

Good social consequences that can come up in combat:
"Overplayed my Hand," "Loss of Face," "Leadership Questioned," "Marked as a Liar" etc.

Good mental consequences that can come about from social skills:
"Second Guessing Myself," "Scared S**tless," "PTSD"

[Richard_Chilton]

I replied to another thread about this - see http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22660.msg1137221.html#msg1137221.

Basic summary: Tell the bad guy shooting at you that you have his kid.  Saying "give up or we'll shoot your kid" would be a bit much, but threatening to beat or otherwise hurt his kid could be a useful social attack and maybe get the guy to toss his gun away.  See the post for the specifics of that example - I think it could work (unless the guy is insane or otherwise doesn't care about his family).

Speaking of social, I just saw a good example of a social attack based off of intimidation in a TV show.  Someone (let's call him Psycho) wanted to make a point to a garage owner and there's this nice cat in the garage so he grabs the cat plunges it into this barrel.  The cat's struggling under dirty water (or oil) and the guy says something along the lines "this is hurting me too, but I'm willing to take pain to find out the information.".  And it is hurting him.  He take the cat out and tosses it to the floor and as the cat walks away you can see where it scratched his hand pretty badly.  The garage owner says "that's not my cat" and Psycho whips his hand to point to a photo bulletin board (splashing it with blood) and says "the next time it will be your son" - the photo was of the garage owner and his son and while it had been in the scene the entire time I hadn't noticed it.

That was one of a series of social attacks as two different criminals, the cops, and a third force all went around and tried to convince people "if he calls you then you call me and tell me - and call me first".  One criminal was using empathy, one criminal was intimidation, the cops weren't allowed to make attacks (and kept blowing their interrogation rolls), and one side was using rapport.  The three sides using social attacks all more or less got take out results but the one using intimidation (while talking to the man's wife Psycho threatened to ... no, I won't repeat it but it was worse than half drowning a cat and threatening that man's son) and rapport (while talking to the man's mother third party convinced her "I'm the only one who can help your son - the police will pin a murder on him and the thugs will kill him") were the ones who got the best results.

I could see attacks like that working a bit - shouted by someone who is under some cover as the fight happens around them.

Richard

Richard

[Taran]

I've been having a hard time figuring out the line between mental and social, but here's kind of my take on it:

In physical combat, if you incur Physical consequences, you need medical attention to start recovery
In mental combat, if you incur Mental consequences, you need a psychologist or therepist to start recovery
In social combat, iff you incur  social consequences, you either take steps, in game, to fix it yourself or it fades over time - depending on the scope of the consequence.

Mostly, if it comes to interacting with another person, then it is a social conflict.  Social conflicts don't have to involve anyone else other than the target of the attack.  For instance, if you're trying to ferret out the truth from someone, this would be a social conflict and consequences would revolve around that person giving up information.  The consequences would probably fade shortly after the conflict as the scope of the conflict isn't far reaching and might not have anything to do with a persons reputation.

In a physical combat, if you're trying to convince a gangster/bodyguard to let you past to pursue his Boss - this would be social combat.  If he fails and let's you go (if he conceeds), his more serious social consequences would be more far reaching because his reputation as a body guard would be tarnished.  There'd probably be a reconing with his Boss as well.  This last part might lead to mental stress. (Maybe if his High Concept revolves around being completely faithful to his Boss)

From what I can see, Mental damage and consequences are super rare and socially, is used in very rare situations (like an abusive relationship).  So over a long enough span of time a person might suffer mental stress/consequences.

[Taran]

@InFerrumVeritas

I like how you differentiated the consequences between mental and social.  What I see from what you wrote is if you make the consequence affect the person self image/esteem etc.. then it is a mental consequence/attack; if you affect how OTHERS see him then it is a social consequence/attack