[GS Spoilers] Harry's Power Ups

[Rasins]

I'm not sure exactly where this might fit, but I think some of his development of political skill would be a power up.  For instance calling in Summer at the end of PG was a master stroke of political manuvering.

Also, would gaining knowledge (proof?) of a Black Council, and that of the Gray Council also be considered power-up? 

I would also say that his use of the favors owed to him by Marcone and by Lara Wraith at the end of Changes were power-downs.

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I think dying is a pretty big power down.

[Serack]

FM - Meets the Alphas and Tera West
SK - Gains Mouse
DM - Is given custodianship of Fidelacchius
WK - Establishes Paranet
SF - Is given custodianship of Amoracchius

Duh, Mouse, I had thought of that, but it slipped through the cracks while writing.  Paranet:  Great one!  Duno if I would call it an alliance or a marker, but it's a good one.  As for the swords... I'm not sure how I think about those...  some additional input would be welcome.

GP: Ate Kravos's power RP

Wasn't this only a temporary power up, or does it still count for the purpose of your list?

Also "Word of Kemmler" might be worth considering.

Some debate that it was temporary.  I consider it a permanent Power Up because a) When Kravos got Harry's power it seemed like a capacity increase, he didn't use it up, and it was all still there for Harry to eat back, and b) others saw the taint it left on his power later, which tells me that that was still power he had.

Good one on the Word, I think I will add it as knowledge.

I'm not sure exactly where this might fit, but I think some of his development of political skill would be a power up.  For instance calling in Summer at the end of PG was a master stroke of political manuvering.

Also, would gaining knowledge (proof?) of a Black Council, and that of the Gray Council also be considered power-up? 

I would also say that his use of the favors owed to him by Marcone and by Lara Wraith at the end of Changes were power-downs.

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I think dying is a pretty big power down.

The political skill I think is also manifested as an overall increase in craftyness, which has shown in more than one senario...  I like it, but the general gyst of the "list" has been to point at individual events, and I'm not sure of the best way to put this in the list...  I like it though.

As to Marcone and Lara, when would you say that he gained Markers with them that he used in WK?  When Harry backed off about the shroud at the end of DM for Marcone?  At the end of BR, Lara acted as though she felt used by Harry as a cats paw, not as though she owed him anything...  I'll have to reread WK or get more input before I am confident "markers" had been used in this book.  The ones up so far are very definate, whereas these are (at the moment) nebulous.

As to the "Black Council" I'd say Harry is still too ignorant on them to say that he has any knowledge that grants him power...

[sociotard]

Harry has the swords to empower future allies.  They aren't his powerups, and they aren't his allies yet.

[Glorificus]

I'd say those can all probably qualify.  It's just a question of demonstrating that Harry gaining or losing the ability to do something.
I'd also say that, since the list is already in a sort of time-line type format, we might put power increases and decreases on the list. Perhaps gain in black and loss in red? So, (going off memory here)

• SF Harry uses up his favor to get a delicious donut

If you are talking about the Gruff, I thought the donut was to keep him from getting killed. I didn't see the Gruff promising to defend Harry against all comers or give Harry the ability to fly. I thought the donut was to maintain the status quo, keeping Harry alive.

[Quantus]

If you are talking about the Gruff, I thought the donut was to keep him from getting killed. I didn't see the Gruff promising to defend Harry against all comers or give Harry the ability to fly. I thought the donut was to maintain the status quo, keeping Harry alive.

Red indicated power downs.  This would need to be included to counter the line for the favor he when he was given it.

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I think dying is a pretty big power down.

That remains to be seen.  Could go in the other direction, based on some things Lash told him.

[Alablast]

• BR: Burn trauma stuns Harry's ability to use Fire Magic PD

I actually considered this a power up.  Not necessarily the stun in his ability to use fire magic (which came back the next book), but the triggering event itself.  Afterwards, his defenses skyrocketed- before this event he could really only stop physical force; afterwards he rebuilt his shield to be able to stop fire and various other forms of energy attack.  To me that event's a Knowledge, instead of a power down (bad guys can do more than just push you!)

[Quantus]

I actually considered this a power up.  Not necessarily the stun in his ability to use fire magic (which came back the next book), but the triggering event itself.  Afterwards, his defenses skyrocketed- before this event he could really only stop physical force; afterwards he rebuilt his shield to be able to stop fire and various other forms of energy attack.  To me that event's a Knowledge, instead of a power down (bad guys can do more than just push you!)

And to be fair that was a psychological block having as much to do with a fear of Hellfire as the actual injury, if not more so.


WN - Harry is granted the ability to play the Guitar

[Rasins]

That remains to be seen.  Could go in the other direction, based on some things Lash told him.

I was assuming that this was an as-of-now thread.  Of course we all know he'll gain more, but how and when ...

[Serack]

I actually considered this a power up.  Not necessarily the stun in his ability to use fire magic (which came back the next book), but the triggering event itself.  Afterwards, his defenses skyrocketed- before this event he could really only stop physical force; afterwards he rebuilt his shield to be able to stop fire and various other forms of energy attack.  To me that event's a Knowledge, instead of a power down (bad guys can do more than just push you!)

Sorry misspelling, ment for that to be "stunts" not "stuns"  As in inhibits.

I see it as him temporarily losing the power to use fire.  I completely agree that this directly precipitated several other "Power Ups" though, not just the shield bracelet.  I talked in one of my other posts how this is what caused him to star using force as a means of moving objects in DB.

I think I might do sub bullets detailing how this event precipitated several other powerups similiar to the sub bullets under the Molly Apprenticeship.  This is actually significant to the inspiration of this topic in that part of the point is to see correlations between events in the hopes that we can get insight into how things might be manipulated behind the scenes.

I was assuming that this was an as-of-now thread.  Of course we all know he'll gain more, but how and when ...

I agree with both of you.  Long term, it might precipitate some significant power ups (see fire trama above), but short term, Harry (GS spoilers)

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can't use his magic as a ghost.

  (Btw I put changes spoilers in the header)

[Quantus]

I was assuming that this was an as-of-now thread.  Of course we all know he'll gain more, but how and when ...

I was referring to this from White Night, which implies that by

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dying

he would gain perspective that will radically expand his knowledge (which is Power and all that).  Granted that's still not quite right now, unless we count the GS sample chapter

“Now and always,” she replied. “I mean no insult by it, but you should know that your ability to comprehend your environment is very strongly defined by your belief in a number of illusions. Time. Truth. Love. That kind of thing. It isn’t your fault, of course—but it does impose limits upon your ability to perceive and understand some matters.”

“I’m only human,” I said. “So enlighten me.”

“To do so, you would have to

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release your hold on mortality

.”

I blinked and said, “I’d have to

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die

?”

She sighed. “Again, you have only a partial understanding. But in the interest of expediency, yes. You would have to

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cease living

.”

[Rasins]

(Btw I put changes spoilers in the header)

I know,

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but I just like seeing

the mystery of the

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black boxes

, like the

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redacting that goes on with government files.

[Serack]

I know,

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but I just like seeing

the mystery of the

(click to show/hide)

black boxes

, like the

(click to show/hide)

redacting that goes on with government files.

I did it as a response to your post btw.

[Rasins]

I did it as a response to your post btw.

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Absolutely <grin>

[rharalson]

WK - Learns of and uses his connection to Outsiders for the first time

Actually the first time was when he defeated HHWB

I would argue that while he may have used his connection to the Outsiders when defeating HHWB, he was not aware of it (he probably just thought he got REALLY lucky or that Lea had done more to help him that she actually did, in fact I don't think he even knew, at the time, that HHWB was an Outsider). He did not learn or gain the knowledge until Lash mentioned it. As far as this goes I would say:

birth- he gained the innate ability talent
battle with HHWB- first unknowingly used the ability talent (and therefor perhaps the Outsiders became aware that he had this ability talent)
conversation with Lash- gained the knowledge of the ability talent (IIRC Lash directed his use of it at this point)
some unknown event- gains the skill of using the ability talent and/or fuller knowledge about it

[Serack]

I would argue that while he may have used his connection to the Outsiders when defeating HHWB, he was not aware of it (he probably just thought he got REALLY lucky or that Lea had done more to help him that she actually did, in fact I don't think he even knew, at the time, that HHWB was an Outsider). He did not learn or gain the knowledge until Lash mentioned it. As far as this goes I would say:

birth- he gained the innate ability
battle with HHWB- first unknowingly used the ability (and therefor perhaps the Outsiders became aware that he had this ability)
conversation with Lash- gained the knowledge of the ability (IIRC Lash directed his use of it at this point)
some unknown event- gains the skill of using the ability and/or fuller knowledge about it

I don't agree with the significance of the semantic differences you seem to be trying to emphasize.

Edit:  Rethinking this.  The things you emphasize seem rather contradictory and thus I think distract me from your underlying point, so I am contemplating this while I wash the dishes.