True Shapeshifter skill

[phi16180339887]

If I turn my character into a tree or rock, what skill do I use to keep the bad guy from noticing?
Disguise (Deceit)
Hiding (Stealth)
Camouflage (Survival)

Also, if he turns into a lamp, what happens when he's plugged into the wall socket? Turned on?

[Bruce Coulson]

He becomes...enlightened.

(ducks quickly)

The skill used would between you and your GM; all three of those sound good.  Generallly, PCs get to use the highest of any relevant skills, with a possible +1 for supporting skills.  My personal vote would be Survival, since you're probably outdoors...

Craftsmanship roll to see how well you became a lamp.

[devonapple]

It's tempting to make a list of which skill governs which shape, but the system encourages multiple ways to solve a problem, so I suspect it is proper to negotiate with the GM to justify a given form based on one's aptitudes, so someone with Scholarship may just as easily be able to justify replicating a convincing rock as someone with Survival; the lamp could also be a Scholarship or a Craftsmanship check to copy. Ultimately, I think this all falls down to Deceit, so perhaps the form will determine which secondary skill is used to Modify (i.e., provide a bonus or a minus depending on the value) the "Disguise check".

[sinker]

It occurs to me, if one is trying to copy something then you might need craftsmanship or maybe alertness, however most of the time one is creating something original. So what happens if you get a good roll then? Are you an aesthetically pleasing lamp? What happens on a low roll? Ugly lamp? Most people aren't going to question an object even if it is an ugly lamp, or really oddly shaped rock, so what is the value in the roll? My gut is that most of the time you should be using deceit or stealth as they actually make sense regardless of form (I.E. the ability to convincingly be an object, or the ability to be less obvious), and if you really go by RAW then if one does not use deceit or stealth then one does not receive the +4 bonus (the power says +4 to deceit or stealth), but that's just being nit-picky.

As far as the second question, my read on it is that you actually are that form (as opposed to just looking like it) and a lamp is capable of being plugged into a wall socket and producing light with electricity. We have no idea what that might feel like, maybe it's uncomfortable, but it's just as likely that it feels pleasant or even completely the same as not conducting electricity. Now that I'm thinking about it, I imagine that a craftsmanship roll may effect whether one conducts electricity in the proper manner to create light or not.

[Michael Sandy]

You could simply say "appropriate skill, modified by Deceit".

Or buy a stunt that allows you to use Deceit all the time for it, perhaps with a +1 roll.

Perhaps there would be modifiers, like "unfamiliar with form", which could be tagged by someone for an alertness roll.

Or you could do the navel gazing maneuver "studied the form, had a model, been one before" or whatever for a higher roll.

[Hal]

I started a somewhat similar thread a while back.  You might find some of the information there helpful:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24646.0.html

Although it seemed to get derailed by discussions on were-houses. 

I'd do Deceit modified by an appropriate skill.  Deceit + Craftsmanship if you're trying to be furniture, or Deceit + Survival if you're trying to be an inanimate object.

As for the lamp question, I'd make it a Craftsmanship roll to determine if you have shapeshifted into the actual item or just something resembling that item.  On a failed roll, probably give him a point of physical stress for electrical damage and then compel a relevant aspect to have him return to normal form.

[Lord Afabie]

What I want to know is, could i change into someone wearing functional body armor?
(probably)

Or carrying a weapon, and does it make a difference if it's a ranged or melee weapon?
(probably not, melee more likely than ranged)

Could this fake equipment potentially be more powerful than commonly available real equipment?
(I would say no)

And how long would it take to change into this type of form?
(not sure about this one)

What does everyone else think?
(I actually want to know)

[Bruce Coulson]

I'm not sure about changing into someone with functional body armor (although you could take an appropriate level of Toughness), since that's becoming both a person and an item simultaneously.  My opinion is no; although you could changed INTO body armor, to be worn by someone else.  (You could also turn into a set of overalls or nightgown, or any other one-piece outfit.  Be careful as to who you do this for...

Weapon?  Again, you could take Claws (modular powers) to simulate a melee weapon, or Breath Weapon to simulate a ranged attack.

My logic is that you can't become two things simultaneously.  A piece of armor, or a gun, is one item; becoming a person wielding said item is another item.

There's no clear rule as to timing; if speed was a factor, I'd make it a Deceit check.  (One exchange per power/+1 Refresh simulated, with extra successes/ratings lowering the speed, but not less than one exchange.)

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that a -1 refresh power that requires Beast Change or True Shapeshifting is the way to go there. Armour could be up to rating 2 if obvious, 1 if not. Ranged weapons wouldn't be allowed. Melee weapons would be limited to rating 2 for one-handed, rating 3 for two-handed, or rating 1 for concealable. Beast Change would only give you one option for weapons, but True Shapeshifting would let you mix it up.

I'll post a real writeup soonish.

[UmbraLux]

What I want to know is, could i change into someone wearing functional body armor?
(probably)

Or carrying a weapon, and does it make a difference if it's a ranged or melee weapon?
(probably not, melee more likely than ranged)

Could this fake equipment potentially be more powerful than commonly available real equipment?
(I would say no)

And how long would it take to change into this type of form?
(not sure about this one)

What does everyone else think?
(I actually want to know)

True Shapeshifting alone isn't really enough to do all of this.  However Modular Abilities (or just having the correct powers) could cover most of them.  Just have to remember, you're not creating a normal knife by "shifting" a knife into your hand (and gaining Claws through Modular Abilities).  It's not something you can hand to someone else without it disappearing...it's part of you - a part of your powers.

[Sanctaphrax]

FLESH FORGERY [-1]
Description: The shape(s) that you assume can include equipment.
Musts: You must have the Beast Change power or the True Shapeshifting power in order to take this one.
Skills Affected: Weapons, Craftsmanship
Effects:
Flesh Forgery. Your alternate form(s) include items that are not connected to your main body. You may create a simple item whenever you shapeshift into a an alternate form. These items disappear when you shapeshift back. If you have Beast Change, then you must select the item when you take this power. If you have True Shapeshifting, then you may create whatever you wish. However, anything more complex than a knife or a pair of pants may call for a Craftsmanship roll. Armour, thrown weapons, and one handed melee weapons created with this power are limited to rating 2, while two handed melee weapons are limited to rating 3.
Arsenal Of Flesh [-1]. You are no longer limited to creating a single item. You may a number of items, although large quantities may require a Craftsmanship roll.

[ways and means]

FLESH FORGERY [-1]
Description: The shape(s) that you assume can include equipment.
Musts: You must have the Beast Change power or the True Shapeshifting power in order to take this one.
Skills Affected: Weapons, Craftsmanship
Effects:
Flesh Forgery. Your alternate form(s) include items that are not connected to your main body. You may create a simple item whenever you shapeshift into a an alternate form. These items disappear when you shapeshift back. If you have Beast Change, then you must select the item when you take this power. If you have True Shapeshifting, then you may create whatever you wish. However, anything more complex than a knife or a pair of pants may call for a Craftsmanship roll. Armour, thrown weapons, and one handed melee weapons created with this power are limited to rating 2, while two handed melee weapons are limited to rating 3.
Arsenal Of Flesh [-1]. You are no longer limited to creating a single item. You may a number of items, although large quantities may require a Craftsmanship roll.

Thats much neater than my version. Bravo

[sinker]

@Sanctaphrax Would you be able to hand the items to someone else? If not it's not a great deal more than a skin change on the true shapeshifting power. Consider that with true shapeshifting you could take inhuman (or supernatural/mythic) toughness which is mechanically similar to creating armor. Or you could take claws with human guise which is mechanically similar to a knife. You aren't technically creating items, but you're creating the same effects.

[Sanctaphrax]

You can certainly give the items away.

It's intended as a power version of an ALWAYS ARMED aspect. (Does that make sense? I'm not sure...)

[JustADude]

You can certainly give the items away.

It's intended as a power version of an ALWAYS ARMED aspect. (Does that make sense? I'm not sure...)

To go cross-system, it actually sounds like you're talking about the 'Body Armory' power from the OWoD Vampire game. It takes the 'claws' power from the Gangel powers (Protean, IIRC) and combines it with Fleshcrafting to create distinct, separate, and permanent
weapons from your flesh.

Looked at from that perspective, I'd make you take a stress hit for the things you create, maybe 1 stress per item, to represent the loss of body-mass and the strain that would cause. I'd also make the 'Beast Change' stuff look really weird (swords made out of bone and sinew, etc), while the True Shapeshifter stuff would be able to look much more normal.