Playing AS a Warlock

[darkfire14]

Although its apparently discouraged, the temptation to play a Warlock (Someone whose violated the laws of magic) is something I'ed like players to try out.

The world might not care, but I do have concepts for a number of characters considered "Warlocks" but are not necessarily evil. For instance I had an idea of a Warlock character who uses mind magic to help people, by using magic to treat people with mental illnesses (Basically a Magical Psychologist style character). Other ideas include a Chronomancer historian who uses time magic to witness the past and witness history at various locations.

I definitely can see a lot of advantages of using Mind Magic in combat as well. Plenty of creatures have piles of health boxes as well as stuff like supernatural toughness, healing and the like. The ability to inflict Mental Stress on a target is a GOOD way to take out just about anything that has a mind. Inflict enough mental consequences to "Take them out" and Blamo, you've got an easy coup de gras on an enemy. Although its iffy of what "Taking someone out" mentally actually means. Would they go bonkers or fall unconscious? Mental attacks are also a good way of KOing a target without physically harming them. Although once again confusion comes into the mix of how Mental Damage actually manifests in a target.

[EdgeOfDreams]

Playing a warlock is definitely viable both mechanically and narratively.  Just make sure the GM and players have an understanding with each other on how exactly lawbreaker powers will be handled and how much of a factor persecution by the White Council will be.  Those two points can be major sources of disagreement, as seen on these very forums, so it's best to talk about them before the game starts, possibly even before character creation.

[BumblingBear]

OP, you don't need lawbreaker to kill with mind magic.

If you do evocations to a mental track, you can take out a bad guy with unconsciousness.  Then you can slit the person/monster's throat. 

EZ- PZ

[Haru]

The problem (or rather: trouble) with a character concept like this is, that it is very easy to lose yourself in it. Why wouldn't the mindbender make someone forget about that abusive husband or the loss of a loved one, if it is in his power to relieve that pain? Why not go back in time to save your wife, if timetravel to you is merely as much effort as it is for other to get to work in the morning.
In other words: as much as you might think you are doing the right thing, ultimately there will be an event that will tempt you to do the 'right' thing (like Molly did in PG). At that moment, you start changing the world to your liking, and that is going to change you for the worse. Mind magic is probably only going to change you and those you use your magic on, time travel might someday rip the universe appart, if you are not carefull.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to convince you to not play a character like that. I fact, THE main character is a labreaker. I am just saying, that it is probably very hard to stay on the 'good side of bad', and there should be plenty of compels to go along this line.

[Rechan]

That may even be the point of playing it in the first place, Haru. Greek Tragedy style.

[sinker]

I have played this concept before and it was very fun. One of the keys I think (if you're playing by RAW and buying lawbreaker/changing aspects) is to play with the grey areas most of the time and only actually break the laws when it's dramatic or important. Then you don't have to change an aspect every session and it becomes a lot more interesting when you actually do break the laws. Of course if your table prefers you can always just ignore the lawbreaker rules and not worry about changing aspects every three times you break a law.

You should definitely talk with the group on how much the white council should be involved with the character. Something to consider is that as Luccio said there is no black magic radar. A warden must usually view the warlock (or his/her handiwork) with the Sight or catch them in the act, and more than that a warden can only tell you're a practitioner at all by touch or the Sight.

[BumblingBear]

I have played this concept before and it was very fun. One of the keys I think (if you're playing by RAW and buying lawbreaker/changing aspects) is to play with the grey areas most of the time and only actually break the laws when it's dramatic or important. Then you don't have to change an aspect every session and it becomes a lot more interesting when you actually do break the laws. Of course if your table prefers you can always just ignore the lawbreaker rules and not worry about changing aspects every three times you break a law.

You should definitely talk with the group on how much the white council should be involved with the character. Something to consider is that as Luccio said there is no black magic radar. A warden must usually view the warlock (or his/her handiwork) with the Sight or catch them in the act, and more than that a warden can only tell you're a practitioner at all by touch or the Sight.

I don't have the book in front of me, but don't you only have to change an aspect each 3 times up to a certain number of refresh?  I am thinking it's -2.

Otherwise, a bad guy could kill 20 people and have tons of control for killing evocations - which would be broken.

[sinker]

I think you only pick up Lawbreaker (the power) twice (or three times if you start picking it up for many different laws) but you still have to change an aspect every three times.

[Becq]

First offense = gain Lawbreaker +1 (-1 refresh)
Third offense = increase to Lawbreaker +2 (-2 refresh) and modify an aspect
Sixth offense, and every third after = modify another aspect

(Also, if you have three *different* Lawbreakers, the bonuses increase by an additional +1)

If you've killed with magic at least 21 times, then every one of your aspects (including your High Concept) will have been corrupted by the black magic you've been casting.  Keep in mind that in DFRPG terms, this means in effect that every bit of who you are has been twisted into something different and darker than when you began.

[BumblingBear]

First offense = gain Lawbreaker +1 (-1 refresh)
Third offense = increase to Lawbreaker +2 (-2 refresh) and modify an aspect
Sixth offense, and every third after = modify another aspect

(Also, if you have three *different* Lawbreakers, the bonuses increase by an additional +1)

If you've killed with magic at least 21 times, then every one of your aspects (including your High Concept) will have been corrupted by the black magic you've been casting.  Keep in mind that in DFRPG terms, this means in effect that every bit of who you are has been twisted into something different and darker than when you began.

Sounds fun.

[Belial666]

Playing a warlock can be fun. On the subject of Lawbreaking, start out with Lawbreaker 2 in your favorite type of magic and assume that you've broken the laws enough times that all your aspects have been changed by black magic. That's it for mechanics - like those kemmlerian necromancers Harry fought, you've now violated the laws so many times that it comes naturally. Now flavor-wise, you have been deeply changed by the type of magic you wield and it colors your entire character. Far from it being an evil thing, that can be an excellent chance for roleplaying. And in the times that it is an evil thing? It is still fun to play.


As an example, I am playing a powerful warlock in a high refresh game. She is the most fun I've had with DFRPG so far exactly because she's flawed;
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg965566.html#msg965566

a) Questionable morality is fun; black magic is the perfect opportunity to bring the nature of humanity and the morality of one's actions into question. That kind of drama can be good roleplaying. Besides, lots of games tend to lack intra-party RP simply because within the party there are few tensions strong enough to warrant using up game time. That is not the case when someone is trying to rationalize summoning Fae, killing them to fuel a bigger summoning and then use the newly summoned Outsider to animate the corpses. After all, they are not really human - and it is for a good cause.  
b) Black magic is fun; tired of the same old fire and lightning? Black magic opens up your creative side in multiple levels. First, your spells are thematically linked with a concept that can be very interesting. Secondly, you are trying things that other people IC would not. Third, you got to be creative when avoiding the Council.
c) Power is fun; some warlocks do black magic for the Power! That is not inherently bad people - you can do it too. Other characters are scared when the enemy's demons rip people to shredds. The warlock just summons things with tentacles and turns the tables on the enemy. Vader syndrome for the win.

[InFerrumVeritas]

The big thing is, thematically, one cannot break the laws of magic and be unchanged.  It is a tempting force that pushes one to continually slide down a slippery slope.  You shouldn't just be able to say "my character is a good person, so this is okay."  Road to hell and good intentions.

If you want to play a character that is sliding down this slope, awesome.  That sounds like a great story.  Work with your GM though.  If he/she doesn't want to run a game this way, it'll be rough for you (think Senior Council and Wardens dropping in to tear you up).  Also, evading the White Council is probably a major part of your character.

Remember the setting.

[Belial666]

No, you can't say "my character is a good person, so this is okay." But you can say "my character is a good person, so she thinks it justifies the means." That is the slippery slope you are following. It can lead to your character becoming more and more an evil person. Or she can become jaded and cold, knowlingly sacrificing anything in the alter of the greater good, even her own soul. Or she can become more and more deluded, thinking the powers she uses are good and she is doing good things.

Naturally, it doesn't matter why she is killing, transforming, mindraping or enslaving people - it is still an act of imposing her will forcibly upon another with magic, and that is what makes it Lawbreaking. It also doesn't matter why she is violating life, time or the borders of the universe. Those are still acts of her imposing her will against the will of whoever made the universe as is, and thus by extention an act of imposing her will on everyone within reality - and that is what makes it Lawbreaking. In the end, Lawbreaking is the act of imposing your will against the free will of another in a permanent and irrevocable manner.

[BumblingBear]

The big thing is, thematically, one cannot break the laws of magic and be unchanged.  It is a tempting force that pushes one to continually slide down a slippery slope.  You shouldn't just be able to say "my character is a good person, so this is okay."  Road to hell and good intentions.

If you want to play a character that is sliding down this slope, awesome.  That sounds like a great story.  Work with your GM though.  If he/she doesn't want to run a game this way, it'll be rough for you (think Senior Council and Wardens dropping in to tear you up).  Also, evading the White Council is probably a major part of your character.

Remember the setting.

I think it would be fun to play a character who /acts/ good and moral, but is actually a backstabbing, murderous, magical fiend.

[Haru]

That may even be the point of playing it in the first place, Haru. Greek Tragedy style.

I know that.

What I wanted to point out is, that characters like these will quite soon start to gather momentum and the whole story will become about their struggle against the darkness inside. I have nothing against that, but it is something that you should keep in mind, before starting a campaign like that. One character like that could take up the entire stage and that can be frustrating for the rest, for example. If every character is like that, that might work.

An interesting thing might be a sort of Fellowship of saint Giles for might-be-warlocks. A group of White Council outlaws, that is gathered to try to keep each other in check. They are trying to do, what Harry is trying to implement, find the kids early and teach them the right way. Of course, they only take them once they are spoiled, because even the best wizard child might go bad when surrounded by lawbreakers.