Tutor me please

[JayTee]

I think you are short selling low skill levels a bit too much.  At skill level 2, you are capable of doing whatever it is, but you just aren't good enough at it to do it well under pressure.

Fair enough, thanks for pointing this out to me.

Ahhh. Like Columbo....
Got it thanks

Not a problem, glad it helped. 


Also, here is a modified skillset of the Thaumaturgist based on Crusher_Bobs suggestions, how is this?

Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport.

I've swapped around Conviction around with Weapons per Bob's advice on lowering it, but I feel it might be too low. I've also exchanged Resources for Rapport because why would a "Practitioner on the go" have high resources? xD

[hitokiri523]

sorry ive been gone. work stuff poped up.
ok so two quick questions before i fix my character up a little.
will somneone please explain refresher points to me please i dont get it like how do you decide how many you get and what do they do?
Also will someone please explain to me how the skills you pick determine your health mental and social hit points

[UmbraLux]

will somneone please explain refresher points to me please i dont get it like how do you decide how many you get and what do they do?
Also will someone please explain to me how the skills you pick determine your health mental and social hit points

Refresh is the general power level of the game.  It's typically decided by the group prior to starting play.  Refresh limits the number of stunts & powers you can purchase.  Whatever refresh you have left after powers & stunts is the number of fate points you begin play with - must be a minimum of 1 for PCs.

Stress is based on three skills:  Physical - Endurance; Mental - Conviction; Social - Presence.  You get a number of stress boxes based on the skill level.

•          +0 = 2
•          +1 to +2 = 3
•          +3 to +4 = 4
•          +5 = 4 plus extra mild consequence
•          more = extra mild consequence per +2

[crusher_bob]

In addition, if your character doesn't have any powers (only stunts) then they get a +2 bonus refresh, sometimes called the "pure mortal bonus".  Note that powers give more utility per point of refresh than stunts do.  Every power point generally gives you around 1.5 to 2 stunt equivalents.

--------------

If you haven't noticed already, stress works slightly different from damage mechanics in other games.  When you take stress, you only mark off one box of stress, and not that box and all the boxes under that box.

Example:
Our stress meter looks like:
OOOO

We take a stress 3 hit, and now our stress meter looks like:
OOXO

We then take a 2 stress hit:
OXXO

Then, another 3 stress hit.  As our 3rd stress box is already full, it 'roll up' to our 4th stress box:
OXXX

---------------

Note that the rules of the game, as written, tie refresh total and skill total together.  But depending on the game you want to play, it's also possible to use separate skill and refresh totals to fine tune the kind of characters you want in the game.  Here's my sample characters with high refresh (10), but low skills (25)

[crusher_bob]

Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport.

I've swapped around Conviction around with Weapons per Bob's advice on lowering it, but I feel it might be too low. I've also exchanged Resources for Rapport because why would a "Practitioner on the go" have high resources? xD

You have full thaumaturgy, so you'll almost always have an option for something to do outside of combat.  Also, remember that the stuff that appears on your character sheet is not 'exactly' the stuff you have/can do, but rather, how well you solve problems with them.    So, you don't really need a resources score to not live in a cardboard box.  But not having 'resources' on your character sheet means that you have a really hard time solving your problems with money.

[JayTee]

So, here is the (hopefully) full, final version of Ryan the Thaumaturgist. Feel free to rip it apart and dissect every single thing that is wrong with it, I'm looking for some scrutiny heavy feedback here!

Name: Ryan Green
Template: Thaumaturgist
Hight Concept: Practitioner on the Go
Trouble: Warden ex-girlfriend
Aspects:
Obfuscating Stupidity;
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing;
Grey Magic for Fun and Profit;
Don't Mess with me and Mine.


Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport


Stunts:
Small Arms Expert: Use Weapons instead of Guns for Pistols


Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
Pocket Watch, Synchromancy Focus Item (Complexity +1, Control +1)
2 unused potion slots


Refinement - 3
Wards (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Crafting (Frequency +1, Strength +1)
Divination (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Transformation and Disruption (Complexity +1, Control +1)


Refresh:  - 7

[crusher_bob]

Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
Pocket Watch, Synchromancy Focus Item (Complexity +1, Control +1)
2 unused potion slots

You have one too many focus item slots listed here (3, instead of 2), assuming this is supposed to represent your 'base' focus item slots gaind from just thaumaturgy.

Refinement - 3
Wards (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Crafting (Frequency +1, Strength +1)
Divination (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Transformation and Disruption (Complexity +1, Control +1)

1
By the letter of the rules, people without the whole wizard package can't take refinement for more specializations.  They can, however, take refinement for more focus/enchanted item slots.

2
You have too many bonuses ( for three points of refinement  (should be 6).

---------------------

You've spent a lot of refresh for control bonuses that raise your effective discipline to 5, you've also spent a lot of points for an effective lore of 5.  Consider the following build instead:

skills
5: Discipline, Lore
4: Alertness, Weapons
3: Athletics, Deceit
2: Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Rapport

stunts
Small Arms Expert: Use Weapons instead of Guns for Pistols
Mind over body Use Discipline to determine physical stress
Tireless (YS 152)

Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
3 potion slots
Defensive item, power 4, 2 uses/session (1 slot)

-6 refresh

Stress:
Physical: OOOO + 1 extra mild consequence
Social: OOO
Mental: OOO

--------------

By shifting your skills around to get discipline 5 and lore 5, you 'save' all the points of refresh you would have used to get +1 control and +1 complexity.  The shortened skill list means 2 skills have to be dropped outright, I picked fists, which you only had at 1, and endurance, which you had at 3.  But the save points of refresh lets you pickup the mind over body and tireless stunts, which should make up for it.

The only thing you give up, magic wise over the old build is +1 crafting frequency.  But if you want it, you have another point of refresh available to get it back.

Also, I've added a defensive item, both to protect you from low rolls and ambushes and to act as armor to to help soak up large hits.

[JayTee]

You have one too many focus item slots listed here (3, instead of 2), assuming this is supposed to represent your 'base' focus item slots gaind from just thaumaturgy.

My error, everything under Thaumaturgy is indeed the "free" stuff you get for taking it. My brain saw "Focus Item" (Pocket Watch) and read it as "Refinement" for some odd reason. Thank you for pointing it out.

1
By the letter of the rules, people without the whole wizard package can't take refinement for more specializations.  They can, however, take refinement for more focus/enchanted item slots.

Wait what? Where are you getting this? I double checked but I couldn't find any mention of "Wizards only" for refinement. The closest thing I could find was the Options part of Thaumaturgy that says "Options: Casters whose template allows for it should consider the Refinement ability (Page 182)". Considering how the template is flat out "Thaumaturgist" I would think that it would be allowed.

2
You have too many bonuses ( for three points of refinement  (should be 6).

You are completely right, I have no idea how Transformation and Disruption got in there.

(A bunch of stuff about my skills and refresh)

I keep forgetting how bloody useful Stunts are, and that you can indeed get a Superb Skill rating at Chest Deep. I'll go over it again and come up with a more efficient.

EDIT: Speaking of Stunts and their usefulness, I am considering dropping Rapport and taking a Stunt to  use Alertness for it instead, something like Social Cues That lets him pick up on body language and tone of voice for that kind of thing. If I gave it a -1 penalty for characters who are not within his line of sight and a - 1 penalty for dealing with more than one person, would it be reasonable to transplant the trappings of Rapport over to Alertness entirely?

[devonapple]

Wait what? Where are you getting this? I double checked but I couldn't find any mention of "Wizards only" for refinement. The closest thing I could find was the Options part of Thaumaturgy that says "Options: Casters whose template allows for it should consider the Refinement ability (Page 182)". Considering how the template is flat out "Thaumaturgist" I would think that it would be allowed.

YS 181: the Channelling rules say:
"Item Slots...You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items created for those slots must be in keeping with the elemental theme you’ve chosen for your power."

YS 182. The Rituals rules say:
"Item Slots....You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items created for those slots must be in keeping with the single application you’ve chosen for your power."

[tetrasodium]

oops fail...

[JayTee]

Yes, I know it says that for CHANNELING and RUTUAL you can only take refinements for items and such, but where does it say that for THAUMATURGY?

[tetrasodium]

I've been watching this thread for a few days hoping someone more experienced would jump in to help Hitokiri out first, but now that it looks to bew happening Idecided to jump in and help out with a character of my own  Plus it seemed like a good way to get myself more familiar with a system I've been itching to learn better.
Name: Olaf Gustafson
Template: Were Form
High Concept: were-thief
Trouble: Living a "normal" life is hard work when you aren't.
Background: Olaf lived a perfectly ordinary childhood all up and down the east coast(US), growing up into your perfectly average computer geek.
Rising Conflict: Things continued towards mediocrity for olaf until one night he "rolled a 1 in the cosmic game of life" in his words and won a cerebral hemmorage taking out his control over the left side of his body as a consolation prize.
Aspect: Lived there, seen that.

Rising Conflict:His future prospects were grim for a while, but he pulled through with his spirits in tact after a few years relearning how to do mundane things like walk and anything that takes two arms, but teaching your brain to use a body it's forgotten how to use isn't an easy task, doing so poked and prodded something loose and gave him the chance to do it a second time in a whole new body.Although odd for him at first, friends quickly decided olaf worked too much and should start a business training service animals... Because hell,  he's got the coolest freaking "dog" able to both let them in the front door and sorta play video games with them.  Nobody let themselves notice said "dog" was a bit too wolfish or smart  for just being a dog... nobody lets themselves notice anything from the spooky side of things if they can help it, they'd rather buy a hotdog for that cute doggy doing tricks for anyone pausing to look in front of home depot
Aspect: Service animal?... What service animal?

First Story: It turns out that four legs are pretty quick, and service animals can go a lot of places just by following the right sorts of humans through the right doors. That little blue vest saying "I'm working, please don't or distract me" does a great job of keeping the less oblivious out of the doggy pack with a fresh set of clothes in a ziplock. It was decent money given his particular talents; Besides, nobody thinks of that cute waggy tailed "doggy" shouldersurfing them when it's time to type their password. All in all he did rather well for himself working as someone who could "find" exacly what the client says needed "finding", clients appreciate that a potential crook is never seen visiting them when he sends his "dog" to deliver the goods at the drop.
Aspect: four legged social engineering thief.


human form skill config  ()'s denote a skill shuffling in wolf form

Code: [Select]

Performance        :1
Alertness          :2
Athletics          :3
Scholarship(fists) :4
Conviction         :1
Discipline         :2
Deceit(survival)   :3
Burglary           :4
Presence           :1
Investigation      :2
Endurance          :3
Empathy            :1
Rapport            :1
Resources(stealth) :2
P Stress: 4
M Stress: 3
S Stress: 3

Beast Change [–1]
ŠŠEchoes of the Beast(Wolf) [–1]
Inhuman Recovery( [–2]
 |-Catch: Silver heals normally [+2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
 |-Catch: Silver applies normally [+2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Claws [–1]
 Pack Instincts [–1]
 Human Form [+1]
    |-- Regular Joe[Inhuman speed/strength, claws, pack instincts]

[crusher_bob]

The formatting hurts my eyes.

Please use in 'sorted by skill level' formatting, rather than the 'alpha by skill' formatting.

Like this:

Skills
Human Form:
4: Burglary, Scholarship
3: Athletics, Deceit, Endurance
2: Alertness, Discipline, Investigation, Resources
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport

Beast Form
4: Burglary, Fists
3: Athletics, Endurance, Survival
2: Alertness, Discipline, Investigation, Stealth
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport

Powers
Beast Change [–1]
Echoes of the Beast(Wolf) [–1]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]

Human Form [+1] Covering:
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
  The Catch: Silver [+3] (Common +2, Research +1)
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Claws [–1]
Pack Instincts [–1]

-8 Refresh Total

Also looks like you have one too many points in powers.
You can't 'zero out' the cost of toughness powers (and both toughness and recovery count as 'toughness powers' and the cost is added together when computing cost after the catch) with a catch, the powers always cost a minimum of one point.  And, in any event, a catch of 'silver' is only worth three points, not four.

------------

If I understand correctly, the human form is supposed to have left side paralysis, while the wolf form doesn't?  Or did learning to turn into a wolf (eventually) cure the paralysis?

[crusher_bob]

EDIT: Speaking of Stunts and their usefulness, I am considering dropping Rapport and taking a Stunt to  use Alertness for it instead, something like Social Cues That lets him pick up on body language and tone of voice for that kind of thing. If I gave it a -1 penalty for characters who are not within his line of sight and a - 1 penalty for dealing with more than one person, would it be reasonable to transplant the trappings of Rapport over to Alertness entirely?

Stunts normally let you only switch out one 'trapping' of the skill.

So, the trappings of Rapport are technically:
Chit-Chat, Closing Down, First Impressions, Opening Up, Social Defense

Though it's much more appropriate to substitute Awareness for empathy trappings, rather than rapport trappings, imho.  Most notably the 'reading people' of 'social defense (vs Deceit)' trappings.

-----------

The thing with specialization/refinement is a holdover from when character templates were taken a bit more seriously.  But it's still kept around to make rushing to certain heights of magical power more difficult.

[tetrasodium]

Or did learning to turn into a wolf (eventually) cure the paralysis?

that was the idea yea It was more learning to use the left side again shook loose the were form & brought it to the surface where it was usable, sort of justifyng were over hexenwolf and explaining the whole learning to use a new body is hard bit tht hexenwolves offload.  with regards to the dual catch,  I wasn't certain if they stacked or not but the way it was written in the toughness/recovery skills seemed to indicate that each one took a catch and the catch applied to that one instead of a single overall catch, I figured if I was wrong it would get explained quick and better now than when I have a player trying to push the idea on me.  Also while looking over the guest star bit now that I'm getting more familiar with the system I'm thinking/feeling like maybe my first story was a bit too complete