Scope User how does this work?

[fantazero]

So I have a character with
Scope User: You know how to use a scope. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make manoeuvres related to aiming while using a scope or laser sight.

Which I stile from here

So can someone give me an example of how this is used in Game?

My Chacter Brian has a guns of 5.
So he spends one Turn Aiming (Do I need to roll for this? and if so what?)
And then the next turn he shoots and tags Scope User
So 5 for Guns but a 3 Weapon, Plus the 2 for Aiming, plus the 2 for Scope User
So 12 attack, right?

Or wrong?
Or does the Scope user go towards my Aiming role to make sure its successful?

[BumblingBear]

So I have a character with
Scope User: You know how to use a scope. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make manoeuvres related to aiming while using a scope or laser sight.

Which I stile from here

So can someone give me an example of how this is used in Game?

My Chacter Brian has a guns of 5.
So he spends one Turn Aiming (Do I need to roll for this? and if so what?)
And then the next turn he shoots and tags Scope User
So 5 for Guns but a 3 Weapon, Plus the 2 for Aiming, plus the 2 for Scope User
So 12 attack, right?

Or wrong?
Or does the Scope user go towards my Aiming role to make sure its successful?

That is wrong.  Your +2 only goes towards maneuvers.

Scope user is added to your guns to make a maneuver.  This is defended against by the mob.

If you are aiming at a bad guy, he gets an opportunity to defend against it.  If you win (you will be rolling with a +7), he/she gets the aspect "In my sights" etc.

Basically, your stunt makes it a lot easier for you to roll for aspects.

Your +2 is NOT an attack.

What you could do is lay an aspect, "in my sights", then roll guns again for the aspect (on yourself) "Perfect firing posture".  This is effectively a navel gazing maneuver.  The reason why your +2 may come in handy here is that your GM could give you a difficult number to beat in order to succeed if you are laying on glass or trying to stay hidden or something.

Then if you choose to fire in the next round, you could tag both of these aspects for a +4.

If you roll a 0, your attack with your gun will be 5 shifts (because your gun skill is 5).

So...

5+
4=
9.

You will be attacking with a 9 shift attack and a 3 shift weapon rating.

Your weapon rating does not count if your attack is surpassed by the defense.

I hope that helps.

[BumblingBear]

As a caveat,

You can get a stunt/power affecting your attack, but that will be a +1, not a +2.

[Taran]

Is scope User a stunt?  I'm not familiar with it.

From what you say, it adds +2 to any gun related maneuvers when using a scope.  So I'd say it goes toward your aiming roll.

When you use "in my sights" you roll your guns vs their defense skill(I'm not sure what skill you use to defend).  If they fail to defend, you have them maneuvered. If they failed by 1 shift or more they are maneuvered for the scene.

Your Stunt would give you a +2 to this roll.
So it's more likely to succeed and be sticky and therefore let you tag your "in my sights" more times.

If this is how the stunt works then this is how you'd do it:
So your character Brian is Guns +5.
He spends a round targeting an enemy 5 (guns) +2(Scope user) =+7 for the maneuver.
In the next round he shoots the enemy 5 (guns) +2 (taggin "in my sights") = +7 vs their athletics dodge.
I you successfully hit, you take the difference of their athletics result and your guns result and the damage is 3 (weapon damage) + (the difference by which they failed their dodge)

NOTE:  weapon damage does not increase your chance to hit.  It indicates how much extra damage the weapon will do WHEN you hit.  So if the difference between your guns result and their Athletics result is 0, then you will do 3 stress to your target.

Your stunt would also give you a +2 to any maneuver using the guns skill.  You could:
disarm someone by shooting the weapon out of their hand(i'm not sure this is possible in real life, but they do it in the movies all the time!)
Trip them up by "making them dance" while shooting at their feet etc, etc...as long as your using your scope...

[UmbraLux]

So I have a character with
Scope User: You know how to use a scope. Add two to your Guns skill when using it to make manoeuvres related to aiming while using a scope or laser sight.

Which I stile from here

So can someone give me an example of how this is used in Game?

Caveat - this is how I use it.

First some info on scopes.  Contrary to colloquial usage, scopes don't 'help you aim'.  In some ways they make elements of aiming more difficult (there are reasons snipers typically work with a spotter).  Scopes simply make it easier to see a distant target.  Aiming is about judging distance, knowing how gravity, air, and wind will affect the bullet over that distance, and muscle memory and control used in pointing the weapon and pulling the trigger.

Mechanically, a scope is a Guns declaration which is invoked for effect to extend a weapon's useable range.  Since it's invoked for effect, it's in place the entire scene.

As I said, that's how I use it.  Other groups differ.

On to something which may help adjust aim - a laser sight.  Again it's a Guns declaration.  It could be invoked for effect, usually to negate a cover aspect.  It could also simply be invoked once for a +2 to hit. 

Since combat isn't static, the aspect doesn't last and the aim point and declaration need to be redone each exchange.  Mechanically, it only matters because they might fail a declaration roll.  To keep the narrative interesting, I prefer a description of 'how' the laser sight is helping rather than a simple "I have a laser sight."  It doesn't make much difference mechanically, but the Laser Pinpoints Him through the Smoke followed by the Laser Picks Out His Shoulder from Behind the Car makes for a better narrative. 

It's also worth noting that aspects created by a laser may well be used against the shooter...     Someone capable of causing impact to the weapon could also maneuver to Misalign the Laser Sight and invoke for effect to prevent new laser sight declarations without pausing for adjustment. 

[UmbraLux]

That is wrong.  Your +2 only goes towards maneuvers.

Can you clarify this?  Not sure if I've misunderstood or if we have different interpretations.  Aspects, such as one set up by a weapon modification declaration, may be used on any roll which makes sense to the group.  Attacks, maneuvers, blocks, etc.

[BumblingBear]

Can you clarify this?  Not sure if I've misunderstood or if we have different interpretations.  Aspects, such as one set up by a weapon modification declaration, may be used on any roll which makes sense to the group.  Attacks, maneuvers, blocks, etc.

Rolling to attack is not rolling to create an aspect.

There is a reason why attack stunts get a +1 and aspect or defense stunts can be a +2.

For an aspect to be "used", after it is created, one free tag is allowed.  After that it requires fate points.

The stunt that the OP is using is pretty much a "permanant" scope that does not have to be rolled on or a fate point to be declared.

His equipment could be a rifle w/ scope.  If he has a scope on the rifle, he gets the benefit of being able to aim easier - which translates into rolling for aspects easier.

Is scope User a stunt?  I'm not familiar with it.

From what you say, it adds +2 to any gun related maneuvers when using a scope.  So I'd say it goes toward your aiming roll.

When you use "in my sights" you roll your guns vs their defense skill(I'm not sure what skill you use to defend).  If they fail to defend, you have them maneuvered for a number of exchanges equal to the amount of shifts by which they failed.

Your Stunt would give you a +2 to this roll.
So it's more likely to succeed and be sticky and therefore let you tag your "in my sights" more times.

If this is how the stunt works then this is how you'd do it:
So your character Brian is Guns +5.
He spends a round targeting an enemy 5 (guns) +2(Scope user) =+7 for the maneuver.
In the next round he shoots the enemy 5 (guns) +2 (taggin "in my sights") = +7 vs their athletics dodge.
I you successfully hit, you take the difference of their athletics result and your guns result and the damage is 3 (weapon damage) + (the difference by which they failed their dodge)

NOTE:  weapon damage does not increase your chance to hit.  It indicates how much extra damage the weapon will do WHEN you hit.  So if the difference between your guns result and their Athletics result is 0, then you will do 3 stress to your target.

Your stunt would also give you a +2 to any maneuver using the guns skill.  You could:
disarm someone by shooting the weapon out of their hand(i'm not sure this is possible in real life, but they do it in the movies all the time!)
Trip them up by "making them dance" while shooting at their feet etc, etc...as long as your using your scope...

This is correct.

First some info on scopes.  Contrary to colloquial usage, scopes don't 'help you aim'.  In some ways they make elements of aiming more difficult (there are reasons snipers typically work with a spotter).  Scopes simply make it easier to see a distant target.  Aiming is about judging distance, knowing how gravity, air, and wind will affect the bullet over that distance, and muscle memory and control used in pointing the weapon and pulling the trigger.

This isn't really relevant to the OP's question, but I have to make a nitpicky correction on the above.

Scopes DO help the shooter aim.

There are more kinds of scopes than just the standard crosshairs.  There are red dot scopes and fiberoptic scopes like Acogs.

Snipers work with a spotter because they need protection, someone to use the spotting scope, and because the FOV (field of view) out of a high powered scope is relatively small.

Depending on what a person is shooting at, depending on what the mission is, a scope will almost always be preferable to iron sights.  Sure, a high powered scope is not very handy in up-close MOUT style room clearings, but that is what they make these for:





The only reason red dot scopes and such are not used on pistols more often is because it's really hard to find a holster for them.  They also make the weapon heavier.

[sinker]

When you use "in my sights" you roll your guns vs their defense skill(I'm not sure what skill you use to defend).  If they fail to defend, you have them maneuvered for a number of exchanges equal to the amount of shifts by which they failed.

From what I recall this isn't quite right. An aspect generated by a maneuver has only two durations; Fragile and Sticky. Fragile aspects are generated when there's a tie (I.E. the maneuver roll meets but does not exceed the defense) and last until they are tagged or someone maneuvers to remove the aspect. Sticky aspects are generated when the maneuver beats the defense roll by any margin and last the scene or until someone maneuvers to remove them. There's no number of exchanges.

[BumblingBear]

From what I recall this isn't quite right. An aspect generated by a maneuver has only two durations; Fragile and Sticky. Fragile aspects are generated when there's a tie (I.E. the maneuver roll meets but does not exceed the defense) and last until they are tagged or someone maneuvers to remove the aspect. Sticky aspects are generated when the maneuver beats the defense roll by any margin and last the scene or until someone maneuvers to remove them. There's no number of exchanges.

This is correct too.  Thanks for catching that, Sinker.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Most of what has been posted here is correct, but since there's been a lot, I feel that the OP might want a recap.

Your attacking skill (Guns at 5) is the base for your attack.  You always shoot at 5.

If you spend a turn Aiming, you are making a maneuver.  Roll Guns (at 5) vs. your opponents defense skill (typically Athletics or Stealth in this case).  If you tie, the aspect "In my sights" lasts for one exchange, if you win it lasts until your opponent acts to clear it.  On your next turn (when successful) you can tag this aspect for a +2 to your roll.

Your stunt "Scope User" adds two to your guns skill for maneuvers like Aiming (so you'd roll Guns at 7 when aiming).  Not to attacks.

Finally, your weapon rating is how much extra stress you deal if you hit (by default, you deal stress equal to the number of shifts you beat their defense roll by).

Quick Breakdown:
In combat you have four types of actions.  Movement (just moving, roll athletics if it is more than two zones), Attacks (to deal stress and consequences to targets), Maneuvers (to place aspects on yourself, your targets, the scene, or your allies), and Blocks (to prevent an action).

In addition, you have defense rolls (which are made in response to attacks) and declarations (which do not take an action but often cost a fate point). 

Your stunts and powers will tell you what you get these bonuses to.

[Taran]

I didn't know sticky maneuvers lasted the whole scene.  Thanks for that.

I fixed it in my previous post

[UmbraLux]

Rolling to attack is not rolling to create an aspect.

Ah, I did misunderstand.  Somehow I managed to miss that it was a home brew stunt under discussion.  To clarify, what I posted is how I use them without home brewed stunts.

This isn't really relevant to the OP's question, but I have to make a nitpicky correction on the above.

Scopes DO help the shooter aim.

There are more kinds of scopes than just the standard crosshairs.  There are red dot scopes and fiberoptic scopes like Acogs.

If you're talking red dot sights (no optical power) I agree provisionally (red dot sights have specific limitations).  If you're talking optical scopes not so much.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

[BumblingBear]

If you're talking red dot sights (no optical power) I agree provisionally (red dot sights have specific limitations).  If you're talking optical scopes not so much.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

Well, according to RAW, what kind of scope is used does not really matter.

But at my table if someone had this stunt, I would say that they had a nice scope with  a 45 degree red dot on it so it would make sense if they used it in close quarters as well.