Author Topic: The Stoicist - Building a Magic / Ability System  (Read 7101 times)

Offline The Corvidian

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 987
  • I like crows and ravens.
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2011, 02:25:01 AM »
Why not through in someone who can take their power by healing them?
Clarke's Third Law: Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Niven's Converse to Clarke's 3rd Law: Sufficently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

Offline kingaling

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 306
  • THE VOICES ARENT REAL, but have some good ideas
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2011, 02:37:30 AM »
Why not through in someone who can take their power by healing them?
:o <- I Literally did that.

Whoa, awesome! Thank you. That's so cool! Why didn't I come up with that. Will use, thanks again.
Son of Blampira and father to the vampire in her sig.

"It's good to be King." - Mel Brooks

"I have an idea! An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." - Peter Griffin

Offline Quantus

  • Special Collections Division
  • Needs A Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 25216
  • He Who Lurks Around
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2011, 01:14:33 AM »
Idle thought:  Is there any added benefit to taking more permanent damage?  Like could a stoic loose an eye but get some kind of 3rd sight Odin-style?  Or maybe full blinding to make a prophet/seer?  What about if got his hand doused in lava, could he loose the hand but get some more permanent fire powers?  And if they took some permanent emotional or psychological damage (death of a spouce/child for example) would it give a lasting power of some kind?

And I know you said self-inflicted damage doesn't grant power, but I had an image of wandering ascetic Saints,  gaining power from vows of poverty, chastity etc as a form of spiritual stoicism. 

Another idle thought while I was typing that:  What about hunger?  If a stoicist finds himself crossing a dessert and there is no food or water, will he gain power?  How about just being locked up in prison?  I would be funny for stoic prisons to be like lush spa resort, that do there best to prevent any inflicted hardship, just to keep power opportunities from arising. 
<(o)> <(o)>
        / \
      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain

Offline The Corvidian

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 987
  • I like crows and ravens.
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 03:45:46 PM »
How about someone who has pins and plates in their limbs? How about someone suffering from a disease like arthritis?
Clarke's Third Law: Sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Niven's Converse to Clarke's 3rd Law: Sufficently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 01:15:22 PM »
I like the idea, it has a lot of potential. As others already said, using physical pain should provide physical powers. Easier to come by, but not all that potent.

Someone that is using emotional pain and therefore more abstract and more powerful magic would have to work a whole lot harder to fuel up, but then he could really lay waste upon his enemies. I imagine some sort of psychiatrist or something, who is taking the emotional pain of his patients and making them his own, thus powering up. Hell, he could even literally take their pain, making him pretty darn effective in his job.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline kingaling

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 306
  • THE VOICES ARENT REAL, but have some good ideas
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2011, 10:17:19 AM »
Wow! Thanks everyone for giving me some excellent questions. Haru, you'll find that alot of your statements have answers in the first few questions. I did comment on one of your statements though.

---

Is there any added benefit to taking more permanent damage?  Like could a stoic lose an eye but get some kind of 3rd sight Odin-style?  Or maybe full blinding to make a prophet/seer? You have to remember that the whole idea behind the stoicists power is that they have to be stone faced upon pain. I'm not sure even my most powerful Stoicist could hold it together long enough to get any power off of something as traumatic as losing an eye, or both.

What about if got his hand doused in lava, could he loose the hand but get some more permanent fire powers? The relationship of stoicistic power has nothing to do with the type of pain they're given. It's the amount of pain that is thrown at them that determines how big or small their reaction or stored energy is. If someone has the ability of fire, and they get doused with lava and loses a hand, but remains stoic about it, then the energy from losing his hand is stored in its usual form (band-aid, scar etc) And then once that energy has been used up later, then it's used up.

And if they took some permanent emotional or psychological damage (death of a spouce/child for example) would it give a lasting power of some kind? That's an interesting one and something I've been playing around with. Now, as something like this is traumatic in a mindset, we get into the realm of emotional and mental stoicism. These horrible feelings can be bottled up and stored to a massive extent, but there's a cost. It feeds off of your battle scars. And if you don't have any, then it just feeds off of your life force. The one postive thing that comes out of this doesn't cost energy at all, is resolute. I.E. remaining stonefaced through almost anything. Some stoicists have managed to use their torturous pasts to gain resolute, and then let go. And as a bonus, stoicists that move past their emotional and mental pains get to keep resolute.

And I know you said self-inflicted damage doesn't grant power, but I had an image of wandering ascetic Saints,  gaining power from vows of poverty, chastity etc as a form of spiritual stoicism. Yeah, still self inflicted, interesting idea though.

If a stoicist finds himself crossing a dessert and there is no food or water, will he gain power? It takes a cunning stoicist to realize that the scorching heat of desert sun is an exterior source of pain, but damned if you can find one that can remain stone faced throughout it. Hunger and thirst is a self caused pain so no power granted.

How about just being locked up in prison?  It would be funny for stoic prisons to be like lush spa resort, that do there best to prevent any inflicted hardship, just to keep power opportunities from arising. I have thought of this same thing. I was going to do it, but then I realized even if they got hurt, it wouldn't grant them power. In the enemy prisons everyone is locked up and fastened tight. They don't bring anyone alive unless they haven't exponged all of their powers and have information. There's no one that harms the inmates. Just interrogation and immediate execution.


How about someone who has pins and plates in their limbs? Actually I have a character whose at rest power is stored this way.

How about someone suffering from a disease like arthritis? As much as it sucks, arthritis is still pain from ones own body and therefore negates power granting.


I like the idea, it has a lot of potential. Thanks!

As others already said, using physical pain should provide physical powers. Physical pain isn't what provides the power, it's the ignorance of it.
Son of Blampira and father to the vampire in her sig.

"It's good to be King." - Mel Brooks

"I have an idea! An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." - Peter Griffin

Offline Darkshore

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 526
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2011, 04:39:03 PM »
Just stumbled upon this, seems like a good idea but... Why would there enemies ever attack them? If I personally wanted to kill a Stoicist I would lay in wait until I knew the one shot, stab, etc. I had would kill them. Otherwise your just making them more powerful.

Offline Nicodemus Carpenter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2011, 11:19:49 PM »
Is this going to be the only magical system explained in your story?

You mentioned you liked the idea of someone stealing their power by healing them.  Would that be a separate magical system or just an inverted application of Stoicism?

If there are multiple magical systems, is it possible to practice multiple magical systems, or would it be something akin to matter/antimatter?

Obviously Stoicism requires great focus and training, but is that all just training and aptitude, or is there something akin to a mutant factor that determines whether one can actually practice the art at all?

Love the concept btw.  Far more creative than anything I've come up with yet. 

A question for the thread as a whole.  Does anyone mind if we turn this into a generic support thread for multiple authors creating magical systems or do you want to keep the topic on Stoicism here and simply create another thread for broader discussion?

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

Offline kingaling

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 306
  • THE VOICES ARENT REAL, but have some good ideas
    • View Profile
Re: Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 04:36:46 AM »
Just stumbled upon this, seems like a good idea but... Why would there enemies ever attack them? If I personally wanted to kill a Stoicist I would lay in wait until I knew the one shot, stab, etc. I had would kill them. Otherwise your just making them more powerful.

I actually answered this one earlier in the thread. Their enemies don't attack them outright, any "attack" is a botched assassination. If they do wind up in a fight with a stoicist they do have the means to fight them off, and expertly so, but it'd be far easier and smarter to eliminate them from a distance.

Is this going to be the only magical system explained in your story? Yes

You mentioned you liked the idea of someone stealing their power by healing them. Would that be a separate magical system or just an inverted application of Stoicism? It is an inversion of Stoicism.

If there are multiple magical systems, is it possible to practice multiple magical systems, or would it be something akin to matter/antimatter? There are only Stoicism and it's inversion, it is very much matter/antimatter.

Obviously Stoicism requires great focus and training, but is that all just training and aptitude, or is there something akin to a mutant factor that determines whether one can actually practice the art at all? It is more than sheer will and determination, though that is a big factor, there is in fact a "mutant" factor. Like everything, it's in the blood.

Love the concept btw. Far more creative than anything I've come up with yet.Appreciate it, thank you!

A question for the thread as a whole. Does anyone mind if we turn this into a generic support thread for multiple authors creating magical systems or do you want to keep the topic on Stoicism here and simply create another thread for broader discussion? I should have thought of that before I posted it as "building a magic/ability system" I think I let a lot of people down. I would prefer to keep this focused on Stoicism, if you don't mind. I will change the name however, and you could create a new one :).
Son of Blampira and father to the vampire in her sig.

"It's good to be King." - Mel Brooks

"I have an idea! An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." - Peter Griffin

Offline Nicodemus Carpenter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: The Stoicist - Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 05:48:56 AM »
I think I let a lot of people down.
Not at all yo.
Quote
I would prefer to keep this focused on Stoicism, if you don't mind.
Your thread, your rules.

What kind of stuff can a Stoicist do:

When he/she just received a hit from ambush (his only power thusfar) and he's reacting to a single untrained attacker? And trained? How about 3 untrained attackers? Trained? How about a dozen untrained? Trained? Middle of a battle?

What about when he/she is full to bursting with power?

What non-combat things can stoicists do with their power?  They can heal themselves, can they heal others?  Does the healing process cost them power?  How does the healing occur?  Do they have to understand the principals of medicine and anatomy, or does the body simply place itself back in order utilizing the power stoicism provides?
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

Offline kingaling

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 306
  • THE VOICES ARENT REAL, but have some good ideas
    • View Profile
Re: The Stoicist - Building a Magic / Ability System
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2011, 06:27:03 PM »
What kind of stuff can a Stoicist do:

When he/she just received a hit from ambush (his only power thusfar) and he's reacting to a single untrained attacker? Alright, so to rephrase, what happens when a Stoicist is attacked by an untrained attacker and this is the first source of power they get is from the attack? Well, firstly I'm not sure why an untrained attacker is bothering, as Stoicists aren't known for holding back. A stoicists energy gathers quickly after attack and stoic response, and as this is the only energy they have currently, they'll probably expend it into a quick fight. The untrained attacker might not die, but they'll be leaving without at least one appendage.

And trained? Trained attackers are trained assassins, they make the attempt to kill, if that doesn't happen then they tend to leave. If the assassination is botched and a fight is unavoidable, then every hit that the attacker makes is to be fatal. Trained attackers tend to leave stoicists with deep gouging wounds that are incredibly (if not impossibly) hard to remain stoic for, making the stoicist lose their focus. Stoicists in a bind tend to make their last efforts count and use all energy in reserve, the trained attacker will know to leave a stoicist to die slowly.

How about 3 untrained attackers? Well 3 untrained attackers and a stoicist with one energy reserved, thing are going to go south for the stoicist really quick. 3 untrained attackers and 2 energy reserved for stoicist, he has a fighting chance. 3 untrained attackers and 3 energy reserved puts them on the same ground. If the stoicist is lucky he'll kill one, knock out another and take something vital from the other.

Trained? 3 trained attackers on one stoicist with one energy.. instant death for stoicist. 3 trained attackers and a stoicist with two energy, stoicist still more than likely dead, but able to put up a fight. 3 trained attackers and a stoicist with 3 energy, if the stoicist uses his brains and evades all the hits, he can probably use his abilities to get away.

How about a dozen untrained? A dozen untrained is worth 3 trained. Instant death for stoicist. Same rules follow as before.

Trained? Obliteration and deletion of everything including dental records and favorite bands.

Middle of a battle? What happens in the midst of a battle between attacker and stoicist? The attackers are working to fatally wound the stoicist, but stoicists evade and lunge, they can't put themselves in as much harms way as people think, their wounds have to be unexpected or else they don't get the energy. If the stoicist already has energy then the same rules still apply, because a good hit from an attacker could interrupt the stoic train of thought and actually cause them lose some of the reserved energy.

What about when he/she is full to bursting with power? It is extremely rare (and completely dangerous) for a Stoicist to be full to bursting. A stoicist can take a lot, but the body is a body is a body. The main villain is an excellent example, he is a stoicist who has taken in way too much. He wears bandages and his wounds are bleeding out. The blood is so potent that it is full of pain and those that touch the bandages lose their minds from it.

What non-combat things can stoicists do with their power? It can aid in evasion, and jumping higher, seeing better and farther. It also depends on the stoicist. None have the same reaction to stoicism.

They can heal themselves, can they heal others? They can't heal themselves, they have really slight regenerative properties but they can't control them.

Does the healing process cost them power?  Not stoicistic power, but it is exhausting for the body.

How does the healing occur? When a stoicist is wounded, and they remain stoic, the energy gathers within the wound that's formed. When they expend the energy, the wound fades away.

Do they have to understand the principals of medicine and anatomy, or does the body simply place itself back in order utilizing the power stoicism provides? Stoicists wounds heal when the power is used within them, but it leaves behind faded scars.
Son of Blampira and father to the vampire in her sig.

"It's good to be King." - Mel Brooks

"I have an idea! An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about." - Peter Griffin