Multiple actions in an exchange

[Silverblaze]

Isn't the real reason rapidstrike is better is that it multiplies the weapon rating, so if you have a weapons rating of 11 and say an Epic skill with swords you can make 2 hits at Superb with +11 weapons rating which will stack very nicely, this power is useless against bosess (unless they are substantially worse than you) but could be very useful against a bunch of mooks.

For the most part I'd say yes.  However, from my experience...unless my GM's were doing something wrong.  The Boss usually had skill of equal or only slighlty greater than our combat fanatics in the group.  The stunt isn't so good if the target has a skill of 2 to 3 higher.  one higher, equal or ...god forbid less skill...ouch.  Bad or good rolls can change anything though.

So yeah, it multiplies weapon value and gives a player the option of dumping a lot more fate points than one attack does.

[BumblingBear]

I bolded something I quoted of Sanctaphrax's.

 His original post did not include thefollowing:

" = X nor "add a few more fate points for sick results"  

Adding those fate points I mentioned to each attack adds 4 to 6 damage per attack...making:
example 2.  - each hit would do 10 or 12 or more = 20 or 24
example 3.  - each would do 9 or 11 or more = 27 or 33
example 4.  - each would do 8 or 10 or more = 32 or 40

These examples are at weapon 6...it is possible to get more damage with a higher strength or adding more stunts or weapon value.  These are not maximum damage values...this means even with Mythic Toughness that has a catch at +0 (cannot be satisfied) nearly anything in the game can be dropped in one round with those rolls.

Something with Unthinkable Size ( hulking size X3...9 endurance, a stunt for one more mild consequence, and all of its consequences open...gives the creature 16 stress plus 28 in consequences...adds up to 44 and that critter would be almost dead.

In said combat the creature would then have many tags (consequences) thrown at it next round or from the next character in order in the current round
That is as many stresses as I can easily add to a monster and with 4 attacks from the above example; with 2 fate points per ( costing 9 fate poitns total [one to activate the stunt and two tags per roll]

...40 damage can be done...and that can be exceeded.  That sort of damage would take a 20 shift evocation to equal thhat melee exchange.... roughly. Imagine what that sort of damage will do to a smaller, less stalwart foe.  

It makes doing that much damage way too easy.   Many characters will never be able to do that much damage in a round.  I think challenging a character that can do that sort of damage with ease could be difficult...wizards like McCoy likely don't chuck 20 shift spells without batting an eye.  I feel the system was created with people doing one attack a round in mind...so the powers and spells are not balanced for it.  

OK I definitely hear what you are saying, but what about the enemy's multiple defense rolls (that they can also use fate points on).

As has already been mentioned too, boss or challenge monsters tend to have equal or better skills than a PC group. 

I think that Rapid Strikes would really shine with a higher weapon rating.  That way, as long as you connect you're doing significantly more damage.

[Silverblaze]

OK I definitely hear what you are saying, but what about the enemy's multiple defense rolls (that they can also use fate points on).

As has already been mentioned too, boss or challenge monsters tend to have equal or better skills than a PC group.  

I think that Rapid Strikes would really shine with a higher weapon rating.  That way, as long as you connect you're doing significantly more damage.

Still drains the NPC's fate poitns for the rest of the crew to kill it.  Most NPC's have less fate poitns than NPC's.

Maybe it's not overpowered in many games...but i think it has potential....lots of potential to be broken.  Bosses aren't always combative...I'd consider Marcone a boss.  He is no slouch in combat, but I think that stunt would end him.

Some bosses have high fists, but low (lowish) athletics rapid strike plus a gun could spell doom no?

In any case.  I don't think i can be more clear on why I think multiple actions especially against the same foe can be devastating.

I won't concede my point, but it may not be quite as bad as I predict.

[ways and means]

If Marcone is in a melee situation against a supernatural bruiser he should go down as easily as the next man he is only human, though be in such a situation would represent an absolute mistake on his part which is unlike him. 

[Silverblaze]

If Marcone is in a melee situation against a supernatural bruiser he should go down as easily as the next man he is only human, though be in such a situation would represent an absolute mistake on his part which is unlike him. 

I disagree.  Harry had opportunity to shoot him in the face with a evocation anytime he wanted.  He simply didn't because it wouldn't accomplish anything.  Also from a narrative standpoint killing  Marcone would be bad for future plot. If harry could do it, plenty of others could too. 

Also, Knights are only human and go toe to toe with supernatural heavy weights all the time.  Marcone can go toe to toe with Denarians...I bet he can't fight one with rapid strike.

Perhaps people could use it in their next game or in a mock combat and test it?  Not just take my word for it? 

[InFerrumVeritas]

Here's what I'd do:
Flurry of Blows [-1] (Mortal Stunt, Weapons OR Fists but must be taken separately for both)
Effect: You know how to attack quickly, with multiple strikes.  You may make a spray attack with any weapon against any target provided that you can reach that target (spray attacks with swords must be against adjacent enemies, etc).  
[Note, this is just adding a trapping to the skill]

Quick Strikes [-1] (Mortal Stunt, Weapons OR Fists but must be taken separately for both)
Effect: You make multiple, quick attacks.  When attacking a single opponent, your quick strikes are more difficult to stop but produce shallow wounds.  You may gain +1 to your attacks but take a -1 penalty to your weapon rating.
[Note, this is still advantageous and has the same potential damage output but is more likely to hit]

Then I'd add this trapping to the speed powers:
Rapid Strike: [-1]
You make multiple strikes very quickly against your opponents.  You may make a spray attack with any weapon against any target provided that you can reach that target (spray attacks with swords must be against adjacent enemies).  You may also make spray attacks against a single target, targeting them with multiple attacks that they must defend against separately (and that deal stress separately if they hit).  Supernatural Speed grants +1 to these types of attacks, Mythic Speed grants +2.

If I wanted to really push things:
[Insert some speedy name] [-1]:
You may take two supplemental actions in a round.  If you have any Speed Powers, you may take an additional action (maximum of 3).  The penalties from these actions do stack (to a maximum of -3).

[Sanctaphrax]

THE BONUS FROM THE INVOCATION OF AN ASPECT ONLY APPLIES TO ONE OF THE ATTACKS IN A RAPID STRIKE!

Sorry if that wasn't clear before.

I can see why you thought that this power was broken, if you were operating under the belief that it was otherwise.

You know, the lack of a clear writeup for Rapid Strikes has caused a lot of trouble. I'll write up better later today.

[ways and means]

I disagree.  Harry had opportunity to shoot him in the face with a evocation anytime he wanted.  He simply didn't because it wouldn't accomplish anything.  Also from a narrative standpoint killing  Marcone would be bad for future plot. If harry could do it, plenty of others could too. 

Also, Knights are only human and go toe to toe with supernatural heavy weights all the time.  Marcone can go toe to toe with Denarians...I bet he can't fight one with rapid strike.

Perhaps people could use it in their next game or in a mock combat and test it?  Not just take my word for it? 

Marcone can't go toe to toe with a Denarian in a physical fight, he does not for one have a sword of catch or any physical powers, Marcone is human and human need to fight supernatural horrors in ways that are not a direct confrontation to survive. The reason Marcone allows Harry is in firing range is because Marcone knows Dresden and knows he wouldn't attack him (its a calculated risk allways for some gain), Harry could without a doubt torch Marcone and his whole orginisation (other than Gard) if he wanted but he doesn't because he isn't Cowl. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Better Rapid Strikes write-up, only slightly late.

You may spend a fate point to attack multiple times in a single exchange. Doing so reduces your attack skill by the number of attacks that you make. All attacks made with this power must use the same weapon.

Each attack is a fully independant event, but all occur simultaneously. Each attack involves a separate attack and defence roll, and bonuses from fate points or aspect invocations only apply to one attack at a time. Consequences from one attack may not be invoked to provide a bonus to other attacks in the same action.

[admiralducksauce]

You swayed me, Sanctaphrax.  I'd allow your Rapid Strikes writeup into my game. 

[BumblingBear]

LOL! I should just take rapid strikes as a power in my PbP game later on to see how it balances.

I'm kidding-  kinda.

[ways and means]

I still think rapidstrikes is powerful but that is mainly because I am mentally adding it to my accuracy 8 weapons 7 character I suppose for a less optomised character it would be more balanced.

[Silverblaze]

Better Rapid Strikes write-up, only slightly late.

You may spend a fate point to attack multiple times in a single exchange. Doing so reduces your attack skill by the number of attacks that you make. All attacks made with this power must use the same weapon.

Each attack is a fully independant event, but all occur simultaneously. Each attack involves a separate attack and defence roll, and bonuses from fate points or aspect invocations only apply to one attack at a time. Consequences from one attack may not be invoked to provide a bonus to other attacks in the same action.

So I need to be clear....players are not allowed to spend fate points at all on the seperate attack rolls except the first?

[Sanctaphrax]

@admiralducksauce: Looks like all those years of debate club payed off. I actually convinced someone over the internet.

@BumblingBear: Actually, I'd appreciate some playtesting. I'll be tossing some custom-power equipped goons at the players in EtA soon (assuming they're alright with it), but a second opinion would be great.

@ways and means: Everything will be powerful on that character. But ideally, Rapid Strike wouldn't be more so than 1 refresh of Strength or something along those lines. So please, tell me if you think it's too much.

@Silverblaze: What I had in mind is that players could spend fate points on each attack individually.

[Silverblaze]

@admiralducksauce: Looks like all those years of debate club payed off. I actually convinced someone over the internet.

@BumblingBear: Actually, I'd appreciate some playtesting. I'll be tossing some custom-power equipped goons at the players in EtA soon (assuming they're alright with it), but a second opinion would be great.

@ways and means: Everything will be powerful on that character. But ideally, Rapid Strike wouldn't be more so than 1 refresh of Strength or something along those lines. So please, tell me if you think it's too much.

@Silverblaze: What I had in mind is that players could spend fate points on each attack individually.

Ah then my concern stands.,...but I'll drop the topic for the most part.