Author Topic: Realism vs Gameplay  (Read 3810 times)

Offline JayTee

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1769
  • Reality is only as boring as you make it
    • View Profile
Realism vs Gameplay
« on: May 14, 2011, 11:21:02 PM »
On a scale of one to ten, where do you stand on realism vs gameplay? Likewise why do you stand there?

One - Unless you're doing with with magic, you better damned well respect the laws of reality.

Five - The laws of reality can be ignored if they get in the way of fun, but otherwise should still be respected.

Ten - Reality? Laws? What are those?

Myself, I am around four or five. I like structure and consistency a lot, but frankly fun is more important then anything else in a game!

Offline admiralducksauce

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 577
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 11:51:29 PM »
I'm about 7, I think.  And I wouldn't even term what I follow "Realism".  I'd call it following the appropriate genre, perhaps.  For example, car gas tanks explode when you shoot them in my game because it is how things are done in media, regardless of what reality, Hyneman, and Savage say.

Offline BumblingBear

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2123
  • Rawr.
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 11:55:56 PM »
I run my games at around a 4.

I think part of what makes urban fantasy cool is the iota of realism in there.  Once you take that away, you have D&D set in a modern city.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline toturi

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 12:05:12 AM »
I value consistency in both the game I play and the games I run. But consistency is not realism - the rules are consistent but reality has to conform to the particular ruleset. If within the ruleset, realism takes a backseat, then that is what it does. If within the ruleset, realism is mutable, then so be it. Therefore I'd say I am 1 only with respect to rule consistency and 10 if the ruleset so happens to throw realism out of the window.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline UmbraLux

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1685
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 12:07:36 AM »
On a scale of one to ten, where do you stand on realism vs gameplay? Likewise why do you stand there?
I think the question presents a false dichotomy.  There's no reason verisimilitude (or realism if you prefer) can't coexist with good game play.  All that said, it is a game...playability trumps simulation in my book.
--
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.”  - Albert Einstein

"Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength."  - Eric Hoffer

Offline ways and means

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1783
  • What Lies in the Truth, what truth in the Lies.
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 12:24:29 AM »
I am at ten I run my games under the rule of cool.
Every night has its day.
Even forever must come to an end....
I think.

Offline JayTee

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1769
  • Reality is only as boring as you make it
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 12:48:11 AM »
I am at ten I run my games under the rule of cool.

This.

I wish I could do that, but the inner scientist in me rages whenever something drastically violates what I know to be a law of physics/chemistry/whatever.

I think the question presents a false dichotomy.

I know, the question is less of an absolute and more of a general feel of how you like to run your games, sorry about that D:

Offline evileeyore

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 197
  • PIZZA!
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 12:52:53 AM »
I run from 0 to 11.

While I'm prone to things that sound cool, I have zero desire for any "OMG!  You killed that helicopter with car!" moments.  As such, even magic has to follow laws of reality where they can make themselves felt.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 01:36:38 AM »
I am at ten I run my games under the rule of cool.
Seconded.

I study physics myself, and despite of me knowing better, I often find myself using my knowledge simply as a starting ground to do something ridiculously cool. Or at least ridiculous.
Once when playing shadowrun, we planed to create 2 giant coils to have an enormous magnetic field on a street where a target would have to pass, so his cyberwear would fry and kill him right there. Sadly, it never came to be, because we didn't have enough time to hollow out the buildings on opposite sides of the street to make it work.  :P

Consistency however should still exist, so if I "kill a helicopter with a car" (I like that image ;) ), I could possibly do it again, though it would be boring to use the same action twice, when there are so many ways to destroy things.  ;D
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Bruce Coulson

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 621
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2011, 03:16:18 AM »
All campaign worlds should be as internally consistent as possible.

However, I feel that story logic should win out over real-world reality every time.

Around a 7-8 personally; what happens should be right for the story, even if reality would be different.
You're the spirit of a nation, all right.  But it's NOT America.

Offline Michael Sandy

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2011, 03:46:43 AM »
I think there has to be enough consistency so that the really bad dangerous guy comes across as really bad and dangerous.

There should be consistency so that when the players observe events, confrontations, whatever, they will get a fair idea of what the bad guy can do, what threat level.  Yes, there can be Macguffins to help level the playing field, but there should be a sense of difficulty, or sacrifice, or something so it doesn't feel like the players are watching a movie, waiting for the Big Good to intervene and save the day.

There should be consistency, so that when players act according to their understanding of how the world works, they have a realistic appreciation of how well their gimmicky plan can work.

Offline toturi

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 734
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2011, 04:06:55 AM »
Yes, there can be Macguffins to help level the playing field, but there should be a sense of difficulty, or sacrifice, or something so it doesn't feel like the players are watching a movie, waiting for the Big Good to intervene and save the day.
I agree partially. There should be some sense that the players aren't watching a movie. But the Big Good could be the players characters that intervene and save the day.
With your laws of magic, wizards would pretty much just be helpless carebears who can only do magic tricks. - BumblingBear

Offline Richard_Chilton

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2400
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2011, 04:34:53 AM »
Different game systems stress different things.

The more realism in a game the deadlier it is.  If you use a dagger on a sleeping person then you're generally looking at a killing blow - death, not max damage times two and a saving throw.  If you shoot a person a couple of times with a large gun then odds are good that without a fast trip to the hospital that person is going to die.  Because that's what weapons are designed to do - kill people - and we are very good at designing weapons.

Realism = Deadly Combat, and the more realistic the game the deadlier the combat.

Boot Hill was a game like that.  You had gunfight where the loser went down after a couple of bullets.  Aftermath was like that.  Twilight 2000 was like that.  Cyberpunk was like that.  Call of Cthulhu (and most games modeled off of Chasium's Basic Role Playing) is like that.  GURPS can be like that.

And except for a couple of those games, most of them "was like that" because they aren't made anymore.  Gamers have gone away from ultra realism, detailed hit charts, weapons are deadly type games because most people hate it when a lucky shot takes out a character.  They don't want "The Longest Day" realism, they want "Rambo" style heroism.

Some game systems stress realism.  Some stress charts and accurate weapon descriptions.  Some stress story and don't care what the difference is between a 44 Auto Mag and your average 45 - both get classed as "Heavy Pistol" with the same range and damage.

And once you've chosen a system, that goes a long way in dictating the style of play.  You'll never get GURPS style vehicle descriptions in DFRPG - not without modding the system to death and if you want that level of realism then you're better off modding GURPS into a Dresden setting.

Richard

Offline Katarn

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2673
  • Morgan- Best Warden ever.
    • View Profile
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2011, 05:09:30 AM »
I'd fall around 5, methinks- for example, I set SF at 2000, set a year for a given campaign, and try to fit actual real-world events into the context of a campaign.  And I'll let players try slightly questionable things in the question of a good game, but I do draw the line at reasonable impossibilities.

Offline Team8Mum

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
    • Shattered Realities PBW restart
Re: Realism vs Gameplay
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 07:47:43 AM »
On a scale of one to ten, where do you stand on realism vs gameplay? Likewise why do you stand there?
One - Unless you're doing with with magic, you better damned well respect the laws of reality.
Five - The laws of reality can be ignored if they get in the way of fun, but otherwise should still be respected.
Ten - Reality? Laws? What are those?

Depends on the game. On those I'm currently running;
Dresden -five- there are Wizards faerie and werewolves wandering around. Conservations of mass/ energy takes a holiday round those types. But gravity tends to stick it's head in and laws of time smack you round the head if you mess with them (well the GateKeeper does anyway so he will do)

Laundry.-one. And even magic has to follow a lot of the rules. However on trips to another dimensiontm your laws of physics may vary.

Shattered realities - this is a good 15 and climbing. But then the whole principle of the game is that the reality around you is nothing more than the collective expectations of those with in it; so rewriting it is integral for the game play. And if you are playing at SOLO level you are creating/ rewriting universes on a whim (Subject to the other solos around you 'modifying' them back whe you have stopped holding it in place.) so "There are no laws 'cept those we define ourselves" (ooo theres a cool aspect, must go and make a character based on it :D )

That said ANYTHING can change in a game I am running of the players suggestion makes me laugh and it should a like a fun place to take the plot. It just takes a little less justificatio. The higher up the ladder you are playing.

I would HATE to be a character in one of the stories I write -
and then there are the days when it looks too much like I AM!