Am I reading this power and stunt correctly?

[citadel97501]

Hello all,

I was just having a discussion with one of my players about the Speed powers vs. the Strength powers, and we came up with an interesting trick, and I wanted to make sure I had it right?

The Athletic Ability trapping of the Speed Powers, give you a +1, +2, or +3 bonus to all athletics skill checks, so if you took a stunt that allows you to attack using the athletics skill such as Ball Toss (from the Home Brew Stunts master list), and Mythic Speed you could have an accuracy of 8, and base defense 8?

This seems incredibly powerful, especially if you add on something like a strength power?

[Sanctaphrax]

Ball Toss: Throwing a basketball isn't very different from throwing a knife. Use Athletics to wield thrown weapons. You do not get any bonus from speed powers for these attacks.

That's from the master list.

I put that last sentence in there for a reason. Exactly the same reason that you came up with here, actually. I would attach the same clause to any other Athletics attack stunt.

Incidentally, I think that stunts offering +2 to a skill should probably only give +1 when that skill is being used to attack. Otherwise it's a bit sketchy.

[MijRai]

From what I remember, someone worried about that exact same thing asked Fred, and he suggested that the Speed bonus in that case be halved (while rounding up) for attacking. It is still a great bonus, but not quite so overpowering in an attack.

[Tedronai]

Incidentally, I think that stunts offering +2 to a skill should probably only give +1 when that skill is being used to attack. Otherwise it's a bit sketchy.

Stunts should not be providing +2 to a skill.  They can, however provide +2 to a specific application of a skill so long as that application is not an attack or defense trapping.
This is clearly spelled out in the 'Building Mortal Stunts' section of YS.

And while stunts or powers are capable of allowing one skill to gain specific trappings of another, they do not allow a specific trapping of one skill to gain the effects of another trapping, from that same skill or otherwise.  Thus, a stunt that provides +2 to a specific application (ie. trapping) of one skill cannot properly be 'wrangled' by stunts or powers to apply that bonus to attack or defense.

[Sanctaphrax]

By my reading, stunts can also grant +2 to an entire skill under limited circumstances. For an example, see Won't Get Fooled Again from Your Story.

Those are the ones that can be wrangled.

[Belial666]

so long as that application is not an attack or defense trapping.

+2 on defense is acceptable. Only attacks are limited.

[Tedronai]

By my reading, stunts can also grant +2 to an entire skill under limited circumstances. For an example, see Won't Get Fooled Again from Your Story.

Those are the ones that can be wrangled.

Won't Get Fooled Again does indeed seem to grant +2 to an entire skill under a limited circumstance.  I'm also pretty sure that it's not intended that way, but rather simply worded poorly (missing a clause implied by the flavour that would further limit the bonus to using empathy as a defense skill against misinformation)



@Belial:
YS is actually self-contradictory on that point, but I'll grant that only attacks are indisputably so limited

[Sanctaphrax]

From the chapter on stunts:

"The other possible use for a stunt is to impove the use of a skill (usually a single trapping of that skill) under specific circumstances."

The word usually is important there. For another example of what I mean, see Connected from OW.

[evileeyore]

Won't Get Fooled Again does indeed seem to grant +2 to an entire skill under a limited circumstance.

Ahem.

* evileeyore points to bolded section

[Michael Sandy]

On the subject of whether supernatural powers boost the attack rolls...

Does supernatural strength boost the Fists or Weapons roll to hit?
"Superior Strength: whenever using your Might to modify another skill, it always provides a +1, regardless of the actual comparison of your might score to the skill in question"

And if supernatural strength boosts the attack roll for fists and weapons, why is it a problem if supernatural speed boosts a thrown attack?

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm pretty sure that Strength doesn't boost attack rolls.

Think about it this way. Would you let a character with Superb Might and Great Fists make Superb Fists attacks? No, because Fists includes everything involved in punching. By default, Might doesn't modify Weapons or Fists.

Of course, circumstances could alter that. But they'd have to be pretty unusual.

[ways and means]

I would probably allow might powers to modify fist or weapon when attacking through a physical blocks (spirit, air etc) it just seems appropriate from the novels and the fluff. 

[Michael Sandy]

That makes sense.  Especially since those blocks can be so high anyway.

[ways and means]

I am going to go against the mold and argue that if you look at least in the novels speed powers would increase your to hit rate, (when the novels describe how Thomas fight they show that non-speedster enemies seem to move in slow mo for him). Now I get that the speed powers are nixed for balance reasons but a power or stunt that links speed power to hit kind of suits my sense of taste. Then again I also think someone with mythic strength should be able to rip someone apart at +12 once they have a hold of them (grapple) because it shouldn't be easier to break a tank than a person but I suppose that is because people get plot armour.   

[Belial666]

Speed powers do help enormously in a fight. Not only your defense is higher but you can use that much more effective athletics maneuvers. So you could trip someone up, knock them back and so on to apply aspects or blocks that would help you with your attacks.