Author Topic: Educating on the backstory of your Novel  (Read 3174 times)

Offline RodimusGT

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« on: May 13, 2011, 11:08:10 AM »
So something I noticed that's pretty common these days is authors tend to just drive right on through the doors in the first chapter without telling the location right off the bat. For example in TDF Harry tells us he's a wizard in chapter 1 but a lot of the backstory details are filled in later throughout the book.

So my question would have to be is there a reason authors do this? At the current time in my manuscript my first chapter starts off by educating the reader on what's going on in the world, and how the supernatural scene works before he sets out on his daily routine, but I'm not sure if that's something that I should try and break up and litter throughout the book or not. Any opinions are appreciated

Offline Mickey Finn

  • Encyclopedia Salesman at the Gates of Mordor --- http://tinyurl.com/Amazon-Page-for-Finn
  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 8382
  • Moderator, Thematic Consultant for Comic
    • View Profile
    • Amazon Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 01:37:14 PM »
It engages the reader and invests him right off if you sprinkle the history lessons through the book, rather than front loading.

A great example of this is Jhereg by Brust.
We are not nouns. We are VERBS. -Stephen Fry
The Universe is made of stories, not of atoms. -Muriel Rukeyser

Podcast: http://thegentlemennerds.com/

Wormwood Mysteries:
"All The Pretty Little Horses" http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W8FE3FS 
"Sign of the Times" http://tinyurl.com/DirtyMagick

Offline Lanodantheon

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 439
  • A Wizard is as a Wizard does...
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 02:41:10 PM »
It engages the reader and invests him right off if you sprinkle the history lessons through the book, rather than front loading.

What he said.

One of the most common universal pieces of advice on writing I have found from multiple authorities is "Don't rev your engines." Have the narrative start right off the bat.

Which story would you prefer to read? A) a story that engages us from minute/page one and gives us just the information we need to follow along? or B) a story that spends precious time setting up a world before anything happens and we have to slog through dozens of pages of useless stuff before we even find out who our main character is and what the story is about?

Another way to look at it is that when you go to a play at the theatre, they don't let the audience watch them set up the stage and paint the flats. It's already set up when the curtain rises.

I would much rather you communicate as quickly as possible the following(in no particular order):

1.Who The Main character is(Name, occupation, why we should care about him/her is all)
2. The genre
3. What the main character is struggling against
4. The Tone of the work
5. A reason for me to keep turning pages.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 03:23:35 PM by Lanodantheon »
www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/the-emerald-city  (Nov 2012 Campaign of The Month)

fate-accelerated-star-wars-the-infinite-empire.obsidianportal.com/
(June 2016 Campaign of The Month)

My name is Lanodantheon Thul, Conjure that by your own risk....But first, you have be able to spell it...

Offline RodimusGT

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 03:48:28 PM »
You both give very good points. Lano it's funny you mention a stage set as an example, I have a BFA in Theatre lol, so I read that and was like "Oh I see!" haha! Thanks a lot guys. Looks like I have some rewrites to do!  ;D

Offline Lanodantheon

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 439
  • A Wizard is as a Wizard does...
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 04:53:02 PM »
You both give very good points. Lano it's funny you mention a stage set as an example, I have a BFA in Theatre lol, so I read that and was like "Oh I see!" haha! Thanks a lot guys. Looks like I have some rewrites to do!  ;D

Glad I could do my part.   ;)

A better theatre analogy would be this: Romeo & Juliet starts with that speech that sets up the play. It tells you what you need to know and sets the stage. Lasts about half a page.

Do you really want that speech to last several dozen pages?
www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/the-emerald-city  (Nov 2012 Campaign of The Month)

fate-accelerated-star-wars-the-infinite-empire.obsidianportal.com/
(June 2016 Campaign of The Month)

My name is Lanodantheon Thul, Conjure that by your own risk....But first, you have be able to spell it...

Offline Snowleopard

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 27961
  • Small but sneaky.
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 12:18:05 AM »
In scriptwriting they always tell you - "Show it - don't say it!"
Too much exposition bores the watcher.  In a book you have more leeway but by immersing your character right away
in his/her world and showing what's going on - you pull the reader in and get them interested then, as in the DF, you
scatter tidbits of info throughout the book or story.

Offline jeno

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1357
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 02:35:44 PM »
All the agent and editor blogs I've read has said the same thing - don't start with backstory. Don't start with pages of description. Don't start with action and then go into backstory. Use infodumps sparingly.

Basically - show, don't tell.  ;)
You think you know how this story is going to end, but you don't. -Christopher Moore

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. -Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman

Offline meg_evonne

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5264
  • With an eye made quiet by the power of harmony
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 04:02:09 PM »
Goodness! We're all so great! Now, getting published. I agree, and this is a fundamental necessity. *waiting for Neuro to drop a bomb here*  Check out your white space vs your black space on each page. Typical modern commercial fiction *see Neuro, I covered it* doesn't have page after page of narrative. #See below

Amazingly, you can dole world building out in tiny increments all the way through the book and end up with a more satisfactory commercial read. Instead, find an incident that shows your world, rather than telling your world. If your character teleports; don't tell us that, just show us. <--that is a simplistic example. A more complex example for a world that has an complicated justice system (Jim in that opening where the young wizard is killed) is to create a scene where this is shown working.  

Complicated world building is important for the author; for the reader, it is far less necessary in most cases. If the author KNOWS the rules, then s/he will write the action within those rules, revealing it organically. Betas will find the holes where they say, "I didn't get this." Then you can fix it.

I think I made a friend sad when he explained his story in long narrative of how the world worked. My response (typically blunt unfortunately) was, "But what happens? Who is the reader going to care about? Who will s/he cheer for? Who will s/he want dead?" A story happens. Even in video games, the most wonderful, detailed worlds would be boring for 90% of players without unique characters and the exciting, intriguing story that plays out in that world.

#Let's discuss George RR Martin, who uses lots of narrative. Review his work carefully. I've heard crits against a slow beginning and in some ways I agree. Notice though how quickly we are involved emotionally in these characters within the narrative being presented. You can have a lot of narrative, just make sure you've invested your reader in your characters and what is happening. Martin always has something: some conflict, some threat, some important reveal in ALL of the narrative. He trains the fast-paced, modern reader to seek out what is beneath the narrative, thus involving the reader, which is our number one mission. Martin does this brilliantly.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 04:07:44 PM by meg_evonne »
"Calypso was offerin' Odysseus immortality, darlin'. Penelope offered him endurin' love. I myself just wanted some company." John Henry (Doc) Holliday from "Doc" by Mary Dorla Russell
Photo from Avatar.com by the Domestic Goddess

Offline Nicodemus Carpenter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 12:01:22 AM »
#Let's discuss George RR Martin, who uses lots of narrative. Review his work carefully. I've heard crits against a slow beginning and in some ways I agree. Notice though how quickly we are involved emotionally in these characters within the narrative being presented. You can have a lot of narrative, just make sure you've invested your reader in your characters and what is happening. Martin always has something: some conflict, some threat, some important reveal in ALL of the narrative. He trains the fast-paced, modern reader to seek out what is beneath the narrative, thus involving the reader, which is our number one mission. Martin does this brilliantly.

Personally, I've never been able to understand those who say GRRM has slow beginnings.  He is a master of the craft who had 20 years of published writing experience (and far more than that unpublished) before he ever published the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire, and he uses that experience to draw the reader along in a less blatant way than the usual "Hook on the first page" method most new writers are taught.  He doesn't use one hook, he uses dozens, it's just most are more subtle than readers are used to.  Take A Game of Thrones for example: In the first chapter the soft hook comes from the writing style, the intriguing characters, and the subtle menace; the hard hook is set with the reveal of the Others.  Then again as the book progresses, he sets more hooks with the beheading scene, the direwolf-pups scene, and the Tyrion-meets-Jon scenes, among others. Then second hard hook comes at the end of the third chapter.  Everything else was designed to draw you along to that point, to keep you intrigued enough to continue long enough to fully understand that one moment.  Those of you who've read the books or seen the first episode of the series know exactly what I'm talking about. 

He's pretty much a genius.
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

Offline meg_evonne

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5264
  • With an eye made quiet by the power of harmony
    • View Profile
Re: Educating on the backstory of your Novel
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 03:57:17 AM »
... He doesn't use one hook, he uses dozens, it's just most are more subtle than readers are used to.  ...
He's pretty much a genius.
I agree.
"Calypso was offerin' Odysseus immortality, darlin'. Penelope offered him endurin' love. I myself just wanted some company." John Henry (Doc) Holliday from "Doc" by Mary Dorla Russell
Photo from Avatar.com by the Domestic Goddess