Sunlight spell

[Taran]

The GM should then deal damage to each vampire on the GM's prerogative. This damage is an environmental issue, it can be viewed as the Environment attacking the Vampire. I think the venomous rules give a good model but removal from the light should be an adequate antidote.

I asked if *this*

I think I like it as a maneuver.  I can invoke for effect and the Bads can get FP's.  If I were GMing, I might say that if they take the FP they'd start resisting environmental damage at "x" (I guess it would be dependant on how much power was pumped into the maneuver) unless they they left the zone or the spell duration ran out.

If they turn down the FP, all damage dealt in the zone would still meet the Catch.

Would that be a good way of doing it?

was a good way to deal with it.  No-one has said one way or another, but I think you're agreeing with how I would deal with it.

As far as pulling rays of light out of space goes, I want to do this underground if I wanted.  I saw it more like conjuring sunlight, or having god open a portal to Heaven and allow heavenly sunlight radiate out of the ceiling *angelic choir* AHHHHHHH!  *angelic choir*.

[Belial666]

Thaumaturgy might not have an explicit range but I would still think that's pushing it.

5 shifts can breach a barrier between worlds and open Gateways for you to travel. Harry does the Chicago-Edinburg trip in half an hour (2 miles) of walking when the real distance is 4000 miles. The Gatekeeper has been to the moon physically (though not on-screen). Summoning spells can bring in beings from beyond the borders of the Universe and a 32-shift botched one has done so on-screen. So in thaumaturgy distance matters not.

if you could do it with just 1k miles, you'll need a mirror significantly larger than the park, or you'll end up with an extra star in the sky.

Not really. Sunlight produces natural light-beams like searchlights do. A 10 Kw searchlight can illuminate stuff 20 kilometers away, easy. Now consider that the sunlight falling on a small park (say, 80 yards across) would be 100.000 Kw.   Read up on light beams and sunlight beam divergence if you are not convinced.

"speeding up" or "slowing" time are essentially interchangeable terms. It's all relative after all.

Common misconception not supported by facts. "Slowing" happens when an object's inertial mass (resistance to acceleration, effectively) increases and thus the object accelerates more slowly. The object changes more slowly  but from its point of view the rest of the world seems faster. "Speeding Up" happens when an object's inertial mass decreases. The object accelerates (and thus moves and changes) faster and the rest of the world seems slower by comparison.

As for sending people into space... No. Fail. Sorry, there's no other way to put it.

The objects' inertial mass would be decreased. Since E=1/2mV², and the "m" becomes smaller, the objects are suddenly moving a lot faster (which is what we wanted). This includes little things like their own motions and the Earth's rotation. Sadly, it also includes stuff like the Hubble Flow. The Milky Way is moving at 600 Km/second. What happens if the flow of time is doubled for those in your zone and are suddenly moving at 1200 Km/second, which is 600 Km/second more than the Earth? Whoops!

[Obsid]

I asked if *this*
was a good way to deal with it.  No-one has said one way or another, but I think you're agreeing with how I would deal with it.

As far as pulling rays of light out of space goes, I want to do this underground if I wanted.  I saw it more like conjuring sunlight, or having god open a portal to Heaven and allow heavenly sunlight radiate out of the ceiling *angelic choir* AHHHHHHH!  *angelic choir*

It works, I think. Well, except the "having god X" bit, that's more of a faith magic. Unless you're getting your soulfire directly from Him instead of an angel, in which case that's a GM call.

5 shifts can breach a barrier between worlds and open Gateways for you to travel. Harry does the Chicago-Edinburg trip in half an hour (2 miles) of walking when the real distance is 4000 miles. The Gatekeeper has been to the moon physically (though not on-screen). Summoning spells can bring in beings from beyond the borders of the Universe and a 32-shift botched one has done so on-screen. So in thaumaturgy distance matters not.

Yes, portals make things very convenient. If you're using them then I can't think of any problems with range.

Not really. Sunlight produces natural light-beams like searchlights do. A 10 Kw searchlight can illuminate stuff 20 kilometers away, easy. Now consider that the sunlight falling on a small park (say, 80 yards across) would be 100.000 Kw.   Read up on light beams and sunlight beam divergence if you are not convinced.

I'll pass on the extra research. I'm not in a physics research phase at the moment. I still think that the same reason objects appear smaller from a distance would cause the light to appear smaller by the time it reaches the park, but if you're convinced that there's a reason it wouldn't I won't argue.

Common misconception not supported by facts. "Slowing" happens when an object's inertial mass (resistance to acceleration, effectively) increases and thus the object accelerates more slowly. The object changes more slowly  but from its point of view the rest of the world seems faster. "Speeding Up" happens when an object's inertial mass decreases. The object accelerates (and thus moves and changes) faster and the rest of the world seems slower by comparison.

Very nice scientific jargen, it's pretty, and it happies me. Unfortunately we're not talking strictly science here. I can say that time "slows" when I am slowed, because, relative to my surroundings, time has slowed for me. I can also say that time slows when I am accelerated, because relative to me, my surroundings have slowed. In fact, when I am slowed, it may actually be the case that time, for the rest of the universe, has sped up. Or in the latter instance, I may be right and the universe's time has slowed. Okham might say it's more likely that it's just me that's slowed, but probability and reality aren't always the same.I can again say that time has sped up when I am sped up, or when my surroundings have sped up using the same logic.

Now, there may be scientific imperatives on how to use those terms, but scientific definitions do not inherently overrule other definitions. The tradition of language predates the tradition of science, and it is by the tradition of language, not the tradition of science, in which words get their meanings. No matter how inconvenient it is for us.

The objects' inertial mass would be decreased. Since E=1/2mV², and the "m" becomes smaller, the objects are suddenly moving a lot faster (which is what we wanted). This includes little things like their own motions and the Earth's rotation. Sadly, it also includes stuff like the Hubble Flow. The Milky Way is moving at 600 Km/second. What happens if the flow of time is doubled for those in your zone and are suddenly moving at 1200 Km/second, which is 600 Km/second more than the Earth? Whoops!

I get what you're saying.

A force moves Gideon at 600 km/s.
Gideon starts experiencing time at twice normal.
So for every second relative to the earth, Gideon is pushed 1200km.
600 km/s x 2s_g/1s_n
Except that it is the Earth which applies this force to Gideon.
Which means that Gideon is experience a force that would push him at 600 km/s_n and since 2s_g = 1s_n, then the speed the force would push him at is 600km/2s_g or 300km/s_g
You're smart enough to know what I'm saying.

Obviously that's simplified since I expressed forces in terms of km/s, a measure of speed, instead of the proper nm/s², but again, I'm not in a physics research phase right now. Even if you fill in the missing factors the math is consistent.

Of course there are a lot of other problems with dealing with a zone of enhanced time. Good thing we're dealing with magic and miracles instead of natural phenomena eh? Let God work out the messy details when he's performing miracles.

That's enough of a tangent for me Belial. You're fun but this isn't a thread about space-time. If you have a further rebuttal on this feel free to PM me.

[Taran]

O.k...

so, would it be extra shifts of complexity to get the Angelic Choir Sound Effect, or do you think that just comes with the package?

J/K