Humans in the Nevernever

[Belial666]

From what we know, the Nevernever contains many different "realms", separate locations that each reflect one myth, legend, religion or other belief of the world. Faerie is the closest and most stable world but it still has no set geography, size or even time; those things are mutable depending on what some Powers want and beliefs on Earth dictate. Humans and human-like creatures seem capable of existing in the Nevernever even for long times, given that humans captured by Fae don't seem to die outright.

So, a couple of things I've been wondering about;


1) If a number of humans are trapped in one of the more distant but still survivable parts of the Nevernever, can they live there a long time?

2) Suppose the Realm they find themselves in has much more rapid time or they were trapped a few millennia ago. Given enough time in either case, can they "go forth and multiply", building a new society?

3) Is the realm shaped by their beliefs? Are they themselves shaped by their beliefs?

4) If the answer to #1-3 is yes, was this how many Faerie realms could have been created in the first place? Like Faerie itself but also the Nine Worlds of Norse myths or Olympus/Tartarus of Greek mythology? Parts of the Nevernever originally populated by humans that slowly changed into part-human creatures?

[admiralducksauce]

I think that while obviously this can change according to one's own group and campaign, I like it!    I'm not sure if I would agree with your 3rd point (that humans are shaped by their Nevernever surroundings or the reverse), but it's just personal taste and I can roll with it for this thread.

And the first thing I thought of was Stargate.  Little pockets of people scattered through the NeverNever (universe), technologically backwards and living in societies based on our mythology, accessible only through certain Ways (Stargate addresses).  In Stargate the humans were under the thumbs of alien rulers styling themselves as gods; in your NeverNever, would the "gods" have once been human, then?

I suppose you could run a pretty straight Stargate premise off this, actually.  Whether or not they were once human or not, the guys in charge in these realms could take humans as slaves or at least have a population of "native" humans to be liberated by the PCs.

And now I'm thinking of Land of the Lost.     And Tarzan.  Jungle Book, even.  Talking animals in the NeverNever and their little wayward orphan children.  Tarzan and Mowgli could live in the same stretch of fairy jungle with the Beastmaster.

[Tedronai]

1) If a number of humans are trapped in one of the more distant but still survivable parts of the Nevernever, can they live there a long time?

Sure, why not?

2) Suppose the Realm they find themselves in has much more rapid time or they were trapped a few millennia ago. Given enough time in either case, can they "go forth and multiply", building a new society?

Sure, why not?

3) Is the realm shaped by their beliefs? Are they themselves shaped by their beliefs?

Maybe.

4) If the answer to #1-3 is yes, was this how many Faerie realms could have been created in the first place? Like Faerie itself but also the Nine Worlds of Norse myths or Olympus/Tartarus of Greek mythology? Parts of the Nevernever originally populated by humans that slowly changed into part-human creatures?

Very much maybe.  Ask one of they Fairy Mothers.  She might know.

[Bruce Coulson]

It would depend on the rules of the section of the Never-Never, I would say.

In Oz, it's explicitly stated that normal humans don't age while they live there.

In various mythical realms, humans seem to age, have children, and all the rest of it.

Most people just accept what's around them without too much questioning.  Escapees might not last very long, given the inhabitants of the Never-Never; if they manage to get back, living in a protected 'zoo' might not seem such a bad deal, given the alternative.

[Blackblade]

And the first thing I thought of was Stargate.  Little pockets of people scattered through the NeverNever (universe), technologically backwards and living in societies based on our mythology, accessible only through certain Ways (Stargate addresses).  In Stargate the humans were under the thumbs of alien rulers styling themselves as gods; in your NeverNever, would the "gods" have once been human, then?

I suppose you could run a pretty straight Stargate premise off this, actually.  Whether or not they were once human or not, the guys in charge in these realms could take humans as slaves or at least have a population of "native" humans to be liberated by the PCs.

This is actually the premise of a campaign I'm planning to run with some friends this summer.

[Team8Mum]

 And Tarzan.  Jungle Book, even.  Talking animals in the NeverNever and their little wayward orphan children. 

There is a sign we past on the drive to see my parents that says "Burroughs Garden" My husband and I invaribly argue over if this is
Edgar Rice Burroughs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Rice_Burroughs
or
William S. Burroughs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S._Burroughs

In the end we decided we liked the idea of a version of the two... Tarzan swinging from giant mushrooms whilst Jane slowly changes into a beetle

Now THAT's a 'reality'  should be in the NeverNever*

*if anywhere...

[Richard_Chilton]

One of the problems with the Nevernever - most of the "matter" there seems to be made of ectoplasm.  This came up during a discussion on conjured food and there was a debate whether the human body could process it.

Imagine eating food made of matter that can't exist in this world.  Do that for a few years and you couldn't return - not without half your body disappearing.  And as more and more of your body was made up of the essence of the Nevernever do you remain human, or do you become a creature of the Nevernever? Jim Butcher has said that all sidhe half a mortal spark in them - maybe mortals wandering into the Nevernever might be the origin of the fae?

Richard

[admiralducksauce]

That's a real good point that could back up #3, that humans can be changed by prolonged survival in the Nevernever.  I'm not saying that I think "all fae used to be human", but that theory jives well with the common fairy tale warnings not to eat or drink food offered by fairies.

[Bruce Coulson]

One of the plots I'm working into my campaign is a group of mortal who have been kept as servants/slaves/potential army in the Never-Never; possibly on imported food (to avoid the dissolution problem).

[Richard_Chilton]

Of course a group could always decide that food from the Nevernever is just food.  Or that if something is "realistic" enough (say made by Greater Glamour or conjured at superb quality) that it fools the body and acts as real food.

After all, World Walking implies you've spent a lot of time in the Nevernever and would be hard to do if you had to bring your own meals.

Richard

[Belial666]

BTW, many Fae do come from changelings - half mortal to begin with who eventually change and get to the Nevernever. And regardless of what they eat, all faeries leave actual bodies behind even when killed and can enter our world physically without problems.

[devonapple]

Imagine eating food made of matter that can't exist in this world.  Do that for a few years and you couldn't return - not without half your body disappearing. 

I tried to reason awhile back that eating Fae food was a liability for this very reason, but it didn't get much traction - people felt the obligation aspect of accepting Fae food was more important than any physiological explanation involving how much of one's body was replaced by ectoplasm.

[Bruce Coulson]

Probably because the immediate results of accepting any sort of gift, including food, is much more dramatic than a number crunching of how long one could safely eat food in the Never-Never before coming back to mundane reality would be a problem.

I think it's an interesting idea, personally, and I may steal it for my campaign.  But I also see it as a background explanation for why events are happening in x manner, rather than a key plot point.

[crusher_bob]

Another possibility on why it's not a great idea to eat fae food:

Where do the kittens in the pet shop go once they aren't as cute and saleable?
Why that nice white haired lady from the humane society comes and picks them up.  Sure they can't be sold but she assures me that they'll still try to find homes for them. 

And when kitten hit with major glamour so that it looks like a steak, it's quite tender and succulent.

So when the fae assures you that you'll incur no obligation in accepting her food, and you'll come to no harm in eating it, she'll still be able to tell other people that she's seen you eat (live) kittens quite happily.  She'll be able to mention how impressed she was that you were able to ignore it's pitiful cries as you cut bits of it off...  No, she'll gasp, she did not compel you to eat the kittens.  Who dare would accuse her of such a thing?

[paul_Harkonen]

At the same time, it seems to me that you could use time spent in the Nevernever as the basis for certain abilities.  Mythology is full of examples of individuals who traveled to other worlds, were exposed to the elements contained therein and came back more powerful (or at least different) from before.  The most obvious example is Achilles, but also compare it to Merry and Pippin in Lord of the Rings.  Seems completely reasonable that your characters could live in the Nevernever for years, and as a side-effect of years exposed to warping magics and the effect of ingesting ectoplasma, they come out with certain abilities. 

Does this mean I would suggest that any given character voluntarily go in on a quest to gain new powers and abilities?  No, and I wouldn't necessarily incorporate it into the active campaign either, but it does strike me as an interesting back story for characters (and in fact I have been mulling over a character based on this idea for a while).