Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)

[Bananacake]

Does grappling or defending with Incite Effect (Incite Protective Effect and Incite Restrictive Effect) get a +2 bonus? Normally I wouldn't think so, but given that Incite Physical Effect explicitly said there wasn't a bonus, while those two didn't...

[Sanctaphrax]

No bonus. Sorry for the confusion.

And welcome to the board.

[Bananacake]

Thanks for clarifying.

And thanks.

[Taran]

I have a question about Incite Effect: Protective.

It says that you can use it as a defense against physical attacks.  This doesn't quite work well (or may not)if you have incite mental (depending on the effect).

Would it make more sense to have protective effect work against the type of damage you can incite?  Or have a separate upgrades to protect against a certain type of damage?

I could see where incite mental effect might protect you against physical attacks (if you've got an effect that affects people's perceptions, for instance)

[Sanctaphrax]

Some kind of mental defence upgrade might be a good idea. I'd probably let someone make and take one if I was GMing.

[blackstaff67]

Question/problem re: Intellectus of War.  It's been a bit of a problem in my game until I took the initiative to price it out as a set of stunts like the YS Book says to do:  I came up with -8 Refresh, not -3. 
Replace:
-1) Guns with Weapons
-1) Driving with Weapons
-1) Fists with Weapons
Driving Stunt that lets the PC:
-1) Drive all Land vehicles
-1) Drive all Airborne vehicles
-1) Drive all Waterborne vehicles
Lets PC make declarations and assume skills and stunts he doesn't have:
-2) Limited form of Sponsored Magic
Total: -8 Refresh
To be honest, I'm thinking about banning the thing altogether.  Guess there was a reason they said the powers weren't playtested and to use them at your own risk.  Am I overreacting?
Edited for clarification: Group averages about 14 or so Refresh...so the PC with this is really 19-20 Refresh as far as I'm concerned.  The PC's Weapons skill is a +7 so basically the PC is running around with four '7s' plus all the other skills he has/needs. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Generally speaking, a -3 Power is equivalent to a lot more than 3 Stunts. Inhuman Strength is like 11.5 Stunts, after all.

(click to show/hide)

1. +2 to lift
2. +2 to break
3. another +1 to lift and break
4. +1 to maintain grapple
5. inflict +1 stress in a grapple and move grappled targets 2 zones
6. inflict +2 stress with certain Fists attacks
7. inflict +2 stress with all other Fists attacks
8. inflict +2 stress with certain Guns attacks
9. inflict +2 stress with certain Weapons attacks
10. inflict +2 stress with all other Weapons attacks
11. Might always gives +1 when modifying other skills
11.5 +1 to initiate a grapple

But by all means, change/ban it if it's a problem.

I'd hesitate to allow Intellectus of War myself; it's too vague. It sounds like you're using a fairly permissive interpretation of it, so maybe you and your player could hash out a new version which isn't so open-ended?

For example: the power says it only lets you drive vehicles that could be considered weapons. That's a bit vague, and it sounds like your player is using it for all vehicles. That's a problem that you can solve with a bit of rewriting.

It might be a bad idea to ditch the power completely if someone's already using it, though. Rewriting that PC's character sheet could get messy.

[blackstaff67]

I got sweet-talked into it allowing the power.  Personally, I'd allow everything BUT substituting the Weapons skill for other skills.  After that, the PC becomes manageable.  Granted, the book says a power is like a superstunt, but I feel the whole thing is abusive--and if you need four 7s in the game, then something has already gone very wrong.  Thank you for the input.

[Blackmako]

Important information left out on Intellectus.

1) only has been used for military vehicles. That is at most a one point stunt: can use military vehicles.

2) the sponsored Magic makes no sense. Declarations about leading come from Presence and not from a fighting skill. Declarations/assessments about physical combat come from a fighting skill. For instance a declaration like "hitting the flank" has the fate point expenditure. All three skills (fist, guns, weapons) can create a flank maneuver. Your interpretation of declarations and assessments are too restrictive. Any character can do so with fate points, requisite skill, and GM assent. Should not have to spend two refresh to be able to make declarations and assessments when other players can do so without refresh expenditure.

3) said character possesses skills of guns, fists, and drive and skill points were spent. It does not give access to trappings without having the skill to get trappings. Only helps on "attacks."

4) as Sancta pointed out 3 refresh to power is not equivalent to 3 stunts. 3 refresh is a considerable investment for a character.

5) party is at 16 refresh. Fights beings that are at 20+ refresh with frequent mental attacks. So party fights at challenging level of npcs.

6) before you cry "broke" or "munchkin" consider this fact: with foci/specializations the four wizards in game aim at +8 to + 10 with weapon 5 to 6 attacks via rote. More times than can be counted four wizards hit for 11 to 16 shifts of damage at range and sometimes zone AS PER RULES. Context is very critical in power balance. Mind you the poster is doing such wizardly damage with soulfire and it's accompanying toughness downgrades. Wizards quite simply overshadow physical based characters. The physical characters do great vs cannon fodder, lieutenant monsters. They struggle vs boss monsters and the tougher baddies. In very particular they get beat by magic users and incite emotion.

7) get down to it stunt wise it costs three for fists, guns, drive military weapons. One for capacity to drive military weapons. Maybe 1 for making tactical assessments.

poster grumbled at another character doing wall of death with a sword of cross type item on cannon fodder minions. Dresden needs to be more than a wizard game with a group of six players.

Context is key.

[Blackmako]

Another comparison is the cost of 3 refresh for evocation or thaumaturgy. For three refresh you can simulate any stunt, do all sorts of powerful things, and certainly make declarations, assessments, and maneuvers. Suck at investigation? Do a divination. Summon something in the know. Etc etc.

How many stunts would you have to compile to simulate evocation or thaumaturgy?

There is a balance issue that occurs with wizards at higher refresh in comparison to other non magic templates. Rather than gimping wizards THREE other GMs have used DFRPG resources to give non magic characters a chance. To mitigate high refresh wizards the opposition has been made stronger, more tricky, and much more deadly in the social battlefield.

The intellectus is of little use beyond combat. At the high refresh social and mental skills have been of greater and greater importance. The characters bump into plot device npcs with regularity and that requires more than fighting. Actual fighting is not commonplace is the game. Problem solving is commonplace. For 3 refresh thaum sure helps with that.

[blackstaff67]

I respectfully point you towards What are Powers?, p. 158, right column, last paragraph.  "For each stunt's worth of function...price that power at a cost of -1 Refresh.  Since taking a power means you get no Pure Mortal Refresh bonus (p. 73), a -1 Refresh power is allowed to be a little more effective that an otherwise equivalent stunt."

I may concede that -8 Refresh could be construed as steep.  I do not believe that it should be as cheaply available for -3 Refresh, however.  That said, I see no need to ask the individual in question to alter character sheets but will instead to make a personal note for incoming new characters in future campaigns.
For the record, AFAIK, cannot recall complaints re: Wall of Death stunt.

Now, if you want to say, "Hey, I don't think that accurately reflects the true price of Powers and how they relate to Stunts, those rules need to be tweaked a bit," then fine.  On that we can perhaps agree.  That said, were I to come up with a Power on my own to present to a GM, I'd err on the side of caution and use those very rules. 

[Blackmako]

Do not ignore the paragraphs before your citation of pg 158. "You can think of powers as super stunts as the cost multiple refresh points and often offer MANY SHIFTS of effect for more than one skill." The next paragraph proceeds to stipulate "Supernatural powers have effects that can be further reaching, adding trappings to skills that cover strange supernatural territory. Moreover the trappings ..can cover actions and abilities that would otherwise be flatly impossible." By skipping these two qualifying paragraphs you are just making a quantitative comparison of 3 points in stunts to 3 points in powers. There is a qualitative difference in scope and magnitude. Especially when you move past a one point to one point. I point to 3 pt evocation and 3 pt thaum. Both 3 point investments that could be argued to function well past other collections of 3 points. In fact I would argue that powers requiring 3 or more refresh are of a theme. In fact isn't the one point of a custom powers thread about theme?

[blackstaff67]

 I believe the last paragraph is the single ending thought of the Powers question; that is, that Powers are built like several mortal stunts all smashed together and must be priced accordingly.  The addition of trappings to skills regarding this particular power I feel go beyond what the power implies merely by its price.

It would appear that we will have to agree to disagree and that compromise is impossible.  If you want this power at your table, fine.  You can cheerfully allow it at yours, I'll cheerfully ban it from mine.  I feel that having four skills for a PC topped out is not only overpowering, but provides a disincentive for anyone else to run a non-wizard PC (I'm still working on my own 'fix' for the Shapeshifting rules--but hey, that's another subject).  Essentially, the PC in question goes from this:
7  O
6  O
5  O
4  OO
3  OO
2  OO
1  OO  This is based on a 50 skill point PC for the campaign now being run.
To this:
7  O (OOO)
6  O
5  O
4  OO*
3  OO*
2  OO*
1  OO  Asterisks indicate potential slots taken up by modified skills
For all intents and purposes, it gives the PC in question three free skills at his highest level.  Keep in mind that the skills modified by the power can be a flat ZERO (Mediocre) and still be bumped up to a seven, allowing the skill slots to be replaced by other skills.  THAT'S my problem with the power.  There's no point in running a non-wizard PC if this guy's in the game; in point of fact, he provides a disincentive to running anything BUT a wizard-type PC. 
The guy can shoot, punch/kick, and slash (PLUS drive) better than anyone else could, plus he can use those slots for other skills.  As you are a gentleman, perhaps you personally would not do such a thing, but I have met those that could and would...and that's why I'm banning it from my table. 

[S1C0]

Hey Sanctaphrax could you create a super intelligence power that goes along the same lines as cannon powers ie inhuman, supernatural, mythic? because the physical components are there but the game lacks any power to demonstrate a higher brain function that is not tied to a psychic ability or sponsored magic i would love to see your thoughts and ideas, i have one suggestion to have Accelerated Perception to be a part of it.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm not terribly interested in designing something like that, but I can share my thoughts on it.

-I think you'd have to start by defining the type of intelligence that you're enhancing. There are many different kinds, after all. Best way to nail down your idea is probably to list the fictional characters that you'd give the Powers to. Reed Richards? The vampires from Blindsight? Sherlock Holmes? Batman? The Fleetmind from Schlock Mercenary?

-Declarations are probably the best way to represent your character out-smarting you. "I totally thought of that" can be a Power trapping. So can "I know what you're going to do next".

-Something thaumaturgy-esque, or a new kind of conflict, might be useful for making intellectual feats into interesting scenes.

-Numerical Prodigy, Inexplicable Knowledge, and Prophecy are probably worth a look.