Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)

[Tedronai]

I think I'm gonna ditch everything from Shadow Manipulation except the maneuvers and blocks. Your suggestion for the blocks sounds good, so I'll do that.

In that case, I'd also recommend an upgrade to allow attacks.

As for Hunger Magic, I really have no idea how it's supposed to work. Especially since the way that Feeding Dependency works is so opaque.

It seems to be a relatively simple stress-hit-for-roll-bonus power, but with a minimum increment of two and a limit related to available aspects (the degree of that limitation depending on the answers to my previous questions regarding frequency of use)

Any particular issue with Mindless?

Most a matter of the scope of effects that could be reasonably included combined with the definitions of skill trappings 'requiring thought'.
The vast majority of skill trappings used by thinking beings are going to be thought about by those beings, but most of those could also theoretically be carried out by unthinking beings as well, and as such clearly do not require though (if something requires thought, it cannot be accomplished without thought; if something can be accomplished without thought, it cannot require thought).  Depending on how strictly that clause were to be interpreted, the power could be worth a substantial bonus to refresh, even with the blanket immunities.

[Sanctaphrax]

In that case, I'd also recommend an upgrade to allow attacks.

I'd rather just tell people to buy Long Reach or Telekinesis or Channelling.

It seems to be a relatively simple stress-hit-for-roll-bonus power, but with a minimum increment of two and a limit related to available aspects (the degree of that limitation depending on the answers to my previous questions regarding frequency of use)

Yeah, that sounds pretty sensible. But it runs into the old question about whether taking hunger stress that doesn't exceed your track costs powers.

I should probably finish revising Feeding Dependency first.

Most a matter of the scope of effects that could be reasonably included combined with the definitions of skill trappings 'requiring thought'.
The vast majority of skill trappings used by thinking beings are going to be thought about by those beings, but most of those could also theoretically be carried out by unthinking beings as well, and as such clearly do not require though (if something requires thought, it cannot be accomplished without thought; if something can be accomplished without thought, it cannot require thought).  Depending on how strictly that clause were to be interpreted, the power could be worth a substantial bonus to refresh, even with the blanket immunities.

True.

This Power involves more handwavium then I'm comfortable with, but it's elegant and not notably broken. So I'm loath to change it much.

Unless you/other people have a brilliant idea for how to rework it, of course.

[Tedronai]

I'd rather just tell people to buy Long Reach or Telekinesis or Channelling.

Where are the most recent versions of those powers (aside from Channelling, of course)?

not notably broken

(Potentially) Preventing a character from benefiting from the vast majority of skill trappings, regardless of skill rating in exchange merely for an immunity to mental stress (the social stress clause simply limits the flavour of inflicted consequences and Taken-Out results, it does not prevent them), is 'not notably broken'?

In the absence of, at the very minimum, clearer guidelines as to what is barred, the only reasonable assessment I can come up with for this power is, well, I believe the term was 'game-meltingly awful'.

[Sanctaphrax]

Most recent versions should be on the list.

I honestly don't think Mindless is all that bad. The drawbacks are harsh, but we can safely assume that characters who can't handle them won't take Mindless.

What I regret is the vagueness of the Power. Do you think it'd be better to provide a complete list of barred trappings?

[Sanctaphrax]

SWARM BODY [-3]
Description: Your body is made from a multitude of lesser creatures, making you more difficult to harm.
Note: This power often has a drastic effect on the range of physical consequences that its user can take, and many characters with it will be unable to use conventional weapons and armour. This is not part of the Power's effects, and should be treated as a Compel if it ever impedes a character. This power is usually, but not always, taken with the Amorphous Form Power.
Skills Affected: Endurance, other physical skills.
Effects:
Chipping Away. Single-target attacks don't hurt you much, no matter how deadly they are. Whenever you would suffer physical stress from an attack that does not encompass your entire body, reduce that stress to a single point.

[Tedronai]

Swarm Body could use a language cleanup, but otherwise appears to be substantially improved.
Replace ', reduce that...' with ', you take only a single point of stress.'


Re: Shadow Manipulation
If that's the direction you'd be taking for Shadow Manipulation, I'd likely just call the whole thing a refluffing.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Long Reach) Add some refluffed form of Glamours to Long Reach to represent the ability to produce blocks against perception.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Telekinesis) Add a perception block upgrade, or replace the current physical block upgrade with a perception block upgrade as appropriate to the envisioned theoretical capabilities of the power.

Re: Mindless
Characters who 'can't handle' having the vast majority of skill trappings made unavailable?  I'm having trouble conceiving of a character who COULD handle that restriction.
You could try to compile a list of banned trappings, but I doubt you'd be able to do so without running face-first into paradox (especially with the presence of the 'advanced programming' upgrade: if it's possible to take the advanced programming upgrade, then the trapping does not, in fact, require thought, and the advanced programming upgrade is not necessary), no-true-scottsman, your own arbitrary definitions, etc..
Frankly, I don't think banning trappings in that way can ever really work reliably in this system.  I'd leave it as compel fodder.

[Sanctaphrax]

Swarm Body could use a language cleanup, but otherwise appears to be substantially improved.
Replace ', reduce that...' with ', you take only a single point of stress.'

Thanks, will do.

Re: Shadow Manipulation
If that's the direction you'd be taking for Shadow Manipulation, I'd likely just call the whole thing a refluffing.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Long Reach) Add some refluffed form of Glamours to Long Reach to represent the ability to produce blocks against perception.
(assuming this is the most recent version of Telekinesis) Add a perception block upgrade, or replace the current physical block upgrade with a perception block upgrade as appropriate to the envisioned theoretical capabilities of the power.

Yeah, those look like the most recent versions to me.

I could make Shadow Manipulation into an upgrade, I guess. But it would feel inelegant. I'll think about it.

Re: Mindless
Characters who 'can't handle' having the vast majority of skill trappings made unavailable?  I'm having trouble conceiving of a character who COULD handle that restriction.

Sue the zombie dinosaur comes to mind. Like the note says, the power is mostly unsuitable for player characters. But it's good for zombies and golems and inanimate objects being modelled as creatures.

You could try to compile a list of banned trappings, but I doubt you'd be able to do so without running face-first into paradox (especially with the presence of the 'advanced programming' upgrade: if it's possible to take the advanced programming upgrade, then the trapping does not, in fact, require thought, and the advanced programming upgrade is not necessary), no-true-scottsman, your own arbitrary definitions, etc..
Frankly, I don't think banning trappings in that way can ever really work reliably in this system.  I'd leave it as compel fodder.

What if the bans were replaced with big penalties? Would that be workable?

See, I don't really want to make having no brain super expensive. So I need to balance out the mental invincibility somehow. And I don't like the idea of having to find an in-game justification for when Sue refuses the "you can't do occult research" Compel.

These problems can solve each other. Sure, the Mindless Power will be unsuitable for PCs. But nobody (that I've ever heard of) wants to play a character without a brain anyway.

Oh, and the Superior Programming thing doesn't present any problem that I can see. It lets you do something that requires thought without thought. Doing the impossible is standard for Powers, right?

PS: In retrospect, Telekinesis should probably allow blocks without an upgrade. After all, Guns can be used for blocks.

[Tedronai]

Sue the zombie dinosaur comes to mind. Like the note says, the power is mostly unsuitable for player characters. But it's good for zombies and golems and inanimate objects being modelled as creatures.

I don't have difficulty coming up with characters who could conceivable have a power to represent their 'mindlessness', what I have difficulty with is conceiving of a character incapable of executing any trapping of a skill that the GM concludes 'requires thought'.  The problem being that that variable is wholly undefined.  From a player's point of view, then, until it has been defined, or at least refined, it must be assumed to be as punitive as it could possibly be.
I cannot conceive of a character that could function should the GM, on a whim, decide that using Fists to attack requires thought, or that using Athletics to overcome physical obstacles to movement requires thought, or that using Investigation to locate the source of a scent requires thought.  All of those things, for humans (which, I'm pretty sure are the go-to example of 'thinking beings' these days), require thought, even for highly trained experts, to some minimal degree.
I have difficulty conceiving of a functional character that cannot perform the most basic of tasks.

What if the bans were replaced with big penalties? Would that be workable?

I doubt it, but if you write something up, maybe you'll prove me wrong.

See, I don't really want to make having no brain super expensive. So I need to balance out the mental invincibility somehow. And I don't like the idea of having to find an in-game justification for when Sue refuses the "you can't do occult research" Compel.

Well, for starters, I'd ask the player how they think they're going to justify having points in a research skill in the first place, and then wait to be impressed.  I'd do that during character creation.  Because Sue does not seem to be the Brains-y type.
After the compel was in play, though you'd deal with it in the same way that you'd deal with a BCV refusing a 'the sun is rising' compel.  Find whatever flimsy excuse you need for that situation simply not to inconvenience the character.

These problems can solve each other. Sure, the Mindless Power will be unsuitable for PCs. But nobody (that I've ever heard of) wants to play a character without a brain anyway.

As I believe you've pointed out yourself in the past (or it might have been someone else and I'm confused), simply marking a power available only to NPCs does not make it balanced.  Rather, it demonstrates just how UNbalanced the power actually is.

Oh, and the Superior Programming thing doesn't present any problem that I can see. It lets you do something that requires thought without thought. Doing the impossible is standard for Powers, right?

If you don't think a paradox (something that, by its own definition, can't happen, rather than 'magic' which merely defies conventional understanding) is a problem, how about a simple costing conundrum?
How many trappings do you imagine could possibly be barred by Mindless?  How much refresh would it cost to gain immunity to mental stress?  How much refresh would it cost to overcome the drawbacks of Mindless, a power which offers no benefit beyond mental stress immunity, but includes a significant drawback (something generally represented as affording a rebate)

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't have difficulty coming up with characters who could conceivable have a power to represent their 'mindlessness', what I have difficulty with is conceiving of a character incapable of executing any trapping of a skill that the GM concludes 'requires thought'.  The problem being that that variable is wholly undefined.  From a player's point of view, then, until it has been defined, or at least refined, it must be assumed to be as punitive as it could possibly be.
I cannot conceive of a character that could function should the GM, on a whim, decide that using Fists to attack requires thought, or that using Athletics to overcome physical obstacles to movement requires thought, or that using Investigation to locate the source of a scent requires thought.  All of those things, for humans (which, I'm pretty sure are the go-to example of 'thinking beings' these days), require thought, even for highly trained experts, to some minimal degree.
I have difficulty conceiving of a functional character that cannot perform the most basic of tasks.

This is what I was worried about. What trappings are forbidden is too vague. It's certainly not intended to include running or punching, but it can be read that way. I should probably do something about that.

Well, for starters, I'd ask the player how they think they're going to justify having points in a research skill in the first place, and then wait to be impressed.  I'd do that during character creation.  Because Sue does not seem to be the Brains-y type.
After the compel was in play, though you'd deal with it in the same way that you'd deal with a BCV refusing a 'the sun is rising' compel.  Find whatever flimsy excuse you need for that situation simply not to inconvenience the character.

You don't need skill points to make skill rolls. If Sue has no points in Lore, she can still attempt occult research.

Anyway, avoiding the need to make super-flimsy Compel refusal justifications is a good thing. It's often not practical, but here I think its doable.

As I believe you've pointed out yourself in the past (or it might have been someone else and I'm confused), simply marking a power available only to NPCs does not make it balanced.  Rather, it demonstrates just how UNbalanced the power actually is.

Very true. I have pointed that out.

But this power isn't overpowered or underpowered, as I understand it. The problem is that it's overly loosely defined and might be totally non-functional.

It's not compatible with any concept that I'd expect anyone to play, so it probably won't see any PC use. But it should still be costed so that it'd be worth it but not too worth it for a PC.

If you don't think a paradox (something that, by its own definition, can't happen, rather than 'magic' which merely defies conventional understanding) is a problem, how about a simple costing conundrum?
How many trappings do you imagine could possibly be barred by Mindless?  How much refresh would it cost to gain immunity to mental stress?  How much refresh would it cost to overcome the drawbacks of Mindless, a power which offers no benefit beyond mental stress immunity, but includes a significant drawback (something generally represented as affording a rebate)

A mental version of Physical Immunity should probably cost 8 Refresh, minus Catch value. The social benefits of Mindless are not meaningless, but they are hard to put a price on.

If you start buying back every trapping you lost, you'll soon spend more than you would have just buying the Power without drawbacks. That's because the drawbacks of the power are costed under the assumption that they'll be unimportant to your character, while the benefits are costed under the assumption that they'll be central.

A parallel example would be a Power giving +2 to X and -2 to Y, where X and Y are roughly equally important in a vacuum. It wouldn't be free, obviously. Because I'm not going to take it unless X is more important than Y to me. And if I buy something giving +2 to Y to balance out the drawback, it should totally cost more than just buying +2 to X.

Does that make sense?

[ways and means]

I would work the power so it prohibits a mindless monster from taking part in social or mental combat, they can't do social or mental attacks, maneuvers or blocks but they also can't be effected by such actions. Also for a mindless creature the skill pyramid will be very stupid as an Iron Golum would have a lot physical stats really high endurance and might would need to be at least superb and to get those stats you would need to have a whole bunch of skills a Iron Golum wouldn't/couldn't have.

[Tedronai]

But this power isn't overpowered or underpowered, as I understand it. The problem is that it's overly loosely defined and might be totally non-functional.

As I read it, it's no longer a matter of over-/under-powered.  It's just plain broken.

It's not compatible with any concept that I'd expect anyone to play, so it probably won't see any PC use. But it should still be costed so that it'd be worth it but not too worth it for a PC.

Ideally, all powers should be costed to be 'worth it but not too worth it' for PC and NPC alike.

The social benefits of Mindless are not meaningless, but they are hard to put a price on.

The Social benefits of Mindless do two things:
A) limit the nature of consequences taken from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, particularly given the fact that the player of the victim of an attack chooses the consequence anyway
B) limit the nature of Taken-Out results (including Concesssions) resulting from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, as it in no way reduces the severity of the result, only its narrative form
Each of these 'benefits' could plausibly be deduced from an application of the Aspect associated with the Mindless power (High Concept, if nothing else) to the 'reasonableness test' to which Consequences and Taken-Out results are subject.
It's not that they're difficult to put a price on, it's that they are not justified in having a price at all.

If you start buying back every trapping you lost, you'll soon spend more than you would have just buying the Power without drawbacks. That's because the drawbacks of the power are costed under the assumption that they'll be unimportant to your character, while the benefits are costed under the assumption that they'll be central.

A parallel example would be a Power giving +2 to X and -2 to Y, where X and Y are roughly equally important in a vacuum. It wouldn't be free, obviously. Because I'm not going to take it unless X is more important than Y to me. And if I buy something giving +2 to Y to balance out the drawback, it should totally cost more than just buying +2 to X.

It makes perfect sense.  In a general sense, I wholeheartedly endorse it.
Here, however, it fails utterly.  Mostly, again, because of the vague, over-broad reach of the penalty.
I expect to have characters spend more on a bonus of a given magnitude than they'd see back from an equal penalty, but this much more?  Your character literally might not be able to get out of the bed in the morning, let alone do anything meaningful that it has perfectly suitable stats for...more?  All just to buy off 'your jedi mind tricks don't work on me'?

[Sanctaphrax]

Ideally, all powers should be costed to be 'worth it but not too worth it' for PC and NPC alike.

Yep.

The Social benefits of Mindless do two things:
A) limit the nature of consequences taken from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, particularly given the fact that the player of the victim of an attack chooses the consequence anyway
B) limit the nature of Taken-Out results (including Concesssions) resulting from social stress - this is not a benefit worth refresh, as it in no way reduces the severity of the result, only its narrative form
Each of these 'benefits' could plausibly be deduced from an application of the Aspect associated with the Mindless power (High Concept, if nothing else) to the 'reasonableness test' to which Consequences and Taken-Out results are subject.
It's not that they're difficult to put a price on, it's that they are not justified in having a price at all.

I think you're wrong. A Mindless character can't be intimidated into backing down or talked into doing something dumb. Social attacks cannot affect their actions meaningfully. That's valuable.

Think of the social effects as Social Immunity with a Catch of Reputation-based attacks.

It makes perfect sense.  In a general sense, I wholeheartedly endorse it.
Here, however, it fails utterly.  Mostly, again, because of the vague, over-broad reach of the penalty.

Yeah, the vagueness does need to be fixed. But I don't think it's over-broad. There are plenty of characters who have no purpose outside of a fight.

I expect to have characters spend more on a bonus of a given magnitude than they'd see back from an equal penalty, but this much more?  Your character literally might not be able to get out of the bed in the morning, let alone do anything meaningful that it has perfectly suitable stats for...more?  All just to buy off 'your jedi mind tricks don't work on me'?

Again, it's obviously insane if you interpret the penalty as broadly as possible. But going with a non-crazy interpretation, it's got rather little effect on some characters.

Don't think of the incapabilities as a cost for having immunity to mental attacks. Think of the immunities as a reward for having  no mental abilities.

Basically, this power lets characters opt out of mental stuff entirely. They can't use it and it can't be used on them.

That aside, I'll try and come up with something less vague tomorrow.

PS: The skill pyramids on mindless creatures do get a bit weird, but I've found them to be (barely) workable up to Chest Deep.

[Sanctaphrax]

THERE IS NO SALVATION [-2]
Description: The world is not fair. Some beings are just immune to the things that are supposed to make it so.
Skills Affected: None.
Note: While all custom powers are optional, this one is extra-optional. If you don't like it thematically or if you think it encourages an undesirable arms-race mentality, don't use it.
Effects:
Unequal Before God. All Creatures Are Equal Before God is useless against you. The same applies to the Catch-satisfying effect of Sacred Guardian and all similar effects.

MINDLESS [-0]
Description: You don't have a mind. Either you mindlessly obey others or you simply execute a complex program or you operate entirely on instinct.
Musts: You must take an aspect to represent the thing that you use instead for a mind. For example, THE MERLIN'S PROPERTY or PROGRAMMED TO KILL.
Skills Affected: Mental and social skills
Note: This power requires excellent justification if taken by a character with positive refresh. Not for balance reasons, but for logical reasons. As such, this power is mostly unsuitable for player characters.
Effects:
No Mind. As a mindless creature, you cannot be attacked mentally. Duh. You have no mental stress track and never take mental stress. You are not immune to social stress, but social attacks and maneuvers have no effect on your actions even if you are taken out. So unless someone wants to ruin your reputation or credibility, there's no point attacking you socially.
Incapable Of Thought. Not being able to think has its downsides. You may never use the listed trappings of the following skills: Burglary (Casing, Infiltration), Contacts (All Trappings), Conviction (All Trappings), Deceit (All Trappings), Discipline (All Trappings), Driving (Street Knowledge And Navigation), Empathy (All Trappings Except Social Initiative), Guns (Gun Knowledge), Intimidation (Provocation, Interrogation, Social Attacks), Investigation (Examination), Lore (Arcane Research, Common Ritual), Performance (All Trappings), Presence (Command), Rapport (All Trappings), Resources (All Trappings), Scholarship (All Trappings Except Languages), Survival (Scavenging, Animal Handling, Camouflage), Weapons (Weapon Knowledge).
Superior Instincts/Programming [-1]. The complexity of your program or your instincts is impressive. Select one skill trapping. Ignore the effects of Incapable Of Thought on that trapping. This trapping may be purchased multiple times.

PS: Not sure whether to have Mindless affect Craftsmanship. Thoughts?

[Tedronai]

the Skills Affected line of No Salvation is wrong.  Copy-pasted from Mindless?


Purely instinctual creatures are quite capable of performing many of the trappings listed as banned, most particularly the Survival trappings.  I'm pretty sure multiple instances of Superior Instincts should not be a default upgrade simply to represent the capabilities of insect-level 'non-intelligence'.
Beyond that, simply 'programming' an entity to store and retrieve information (meaning any and all of the 'knowledge' trappings) on command is neither particularly complex nor impressive when one is already capable of programming it to reliably distinguish friend from foe, navigate complex terrain, or just plain walk without falling over.
These problems would be what I believe I described earlier as 'your own arbitrary definitions' (or something to that effect).

As for the benefits of this power 'no effect on your actions' is an inappropriate limitation.  A social consequence or taken-out result might mean that a large crowd stands in your path, preventing you from achieving whatever your goal might be without first dealing with the crowd.  This has an 'effect on your actions', and would thus be banned by this power, but is entirely in keeping with the concept.

[Sanctaphrax]

the Skills Affected line of No Salvation is wrong.  Copy-pasted from Mindless?

Yes. Will fix. Thanks for pointing it out.

Purely instinctual creatures are quite capable of performing many of the trappings listed as banned, most particularly the Survival trappings.  I'm pretty sure multiple instances of Superior Instincts should not be a default upgrade simply to represent the capabilities of insect-level 'non-intelligence'.
Beyond that, simply 'programming' an entity to store and retrieve information (meaning any and all of the 'knowledge' trappings) on command is neither particularly complex nor impressive when one is already capable of programming it to reliably distinguish friend from foe, navigate complex terrain, or just plain walk without falling over.
These problems would be what I believe I described earlier as 'your own arbitrary definitions' (or something to that effect).

I'm open to the possibility that my biases might be screwing this up. What changes would you suggest?

Bear in mind that animals, while dumb, are not Mindless. You can social-fu them with Survival and control them with Domination.

For a computer, retrieving info isn't hard. But zombies and golems and super-sized microbes and other such things, who are the typical users of Mindless, are totally incapable of such actions.

Maybe I should group trappings together so that they can be purchased together for a discount with Superior Programming. That'd let robots be made at reasonable costs.

As for the benefits of this power 'no effect on your actions' is an inappropriate limitation.  A social consequence or taken-out result might mean that a large crowd stands in your path, preventing you from achieving whatever your goal might be without first dealing with the crowd.  This has an 'effect on your actions', and would thus be banned by this power, but is entirely in keeping with the concept.

Alright, I'll change the wording a bit.