Custom Powers Master List (Work In Progress)

[Sanctaphrax]

No matter how well you rationalize, you don't get to perform summonings or wardings or divinations (etc) with Evocation. You get blocks, maneuvers, attacks, all counterspells, and that is all. Bibliomancy does not circumvent that restriction except as detailed in the evothaum section.

If something about its writing indicates otherwise, I'll change it. But I'm not really sure what ought to be changed here.

PS: The sidebar says there are areas of non-overlap. I think it understates their size.

[Sanctaphrax]

Not sure if we're really done with Bibliomancy, but I don't see any reason to let that stop us from moving on. It's Super-Science! time.

SUPER-SCIENCE! [-4]
Description: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; any sufficiently defined magic is indistinguishable from technology. You're able to invent and build fantastic devices that are only dreamed about in science-fiction to create effects that blur the line between science and magic.
Sponsor: Super-Science! is sponsored by Science! itself. Science! is a semi-aware entity formed out of the scientific method and the collected knowledge of the human race.
Agenda: Science! desires to grow through the continued collective accumulation of knowledge and through the propagation of the scientific world-view. Beware, for the cold logic of Science can be used to justify any action...the same inspirations that created radiotherapy for curing cancer, first created nuclear bombs.
Evocation: Super-Science! evocations consist largely of the activation of supernatural weapons. As a result, they tend to be similar to exaggerated versions of real-life weaponry. Examples of Super-Science! evocations include homing missiles, laser blades, acidic bullets, and the like.
Thaumaturgy: Super-Science! rituals work through building machines and solving equations. If a ritual could conceivably be completed by those means, it may be cast with Super-Science!.
Evothaum: Super-Science does not grant the ability to use Thaumaturgy with the speed and methods of Evocation.
Extra Benefits: Super-Science! does not use the usual set of spellcasting skills. Resources replaces Conviction, Craftsmanship replaces Discipline and Scholarship replaces Lore for the purposes of spellcasting with Super-Science!. In addition, a character with Super-Science receives one free specialization in either Crafting power or Crafting frequency. Finally, a character with Super-Science! never accidentally hexes anything.
Drawbacks: Unlike most Sponsored Magic, Super-Science! is not compatible with the normal thematics and mechanics of Evocation and Thaumaturgy. A character with Super-Science! may not cast spells that fall outside of its restrictions and must use its modified casting skills regardless of what other powers they may possess. Furthermore, Super-Science! evocations may not be cast without foci. Finally, Super-Science! foci and enchanted items are vulnerable to hexing. The difficulty is equal to Scholarship + twice the number of Enchanted Item slots invested in the item.

Two questions.

1. How does this look?
2. With this done, do we really need to write up Magic-Tech?

[Tedronai]

The second sentence of drawbacks seems unnecessarily restrictive.
I see no reason to inherently disallow a character from possessing the independent 'spellcasting' abilities represented by this power, and, for instance, Evocation.

I would recommend instead stating that this power is not subject to the usual combining of normal spellcasting powers with sponsored magic (ex. discount on sponsored magic, adding sponsored magic as an additional 'element', allowing purchase of specialization, etc)

[Sanctaphrax]

You know, I'm actually not sure a special interaction with Evocation and Thaumaturgy is needed at all, mechanically speaking. But I think that it's important to the fluff somehow. I dunno, ask Pbartender.

[Tedronai]

Given the special skill usage, a special interaction would seem to be mandatory.

[Pbartender]

The second sentence of drawbacks seems unnecessarily restrictive.
I see no reason to inherently disallow a character from possessing the independent 'spellcasting' abilities represented by this power, and, for instance, Evocation.

I would recommend instead stating that this power is not subject to the usual combining of normal spellcasting powers with sponsored magic (ex. discount on sponsored magic, adding sponsored magic as an additional 'element', allowing purchase of specialization, etc)

You know, I'm actually not sure a special interaction with Evocation and Thaumaturgy is needed at all, mechanically speaking. But I think that it's important to the fluff somehow. I dunno, ask Pbartender.

Given the special skill usage, a special interaction would seem to be mandatory.

The idea was that...  While this is Science that acts like magic, it is not actually magic.  Thematically speaking and, to a lesser degree, mechanically speaking, adding Science! benefits to already existing magic powers seemed counter-intuitive.  The "restriction", therefore, is that once you choose to use Science!, you can't also use traditional magic spells.  Instead, all of your "magic" now uses the alternate skills for Science!.

And while there's really no reason why some couldn't take Science! and ordinary magic, practically they both use the same basic rules and would be an effective waste of refresh.

That said, It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific Drawback...  Adding in an "always" or "must" to Extra Benefit bit about the alternate skills would probably suffice.

[polkaneverdies]

I agree with Pbartender. You don't need to actually restrict because common sense already does.

[KOFFEYKID]

Well, first off I'd say that a better "in canon" name for Super Science would be "Ferromancy", which is what the fey use to refer to human technology.

As far as interactions between magic and science - Why not? It wouldn't be a waste of refresh for somebody who has the full wizard template to take "Super-Science!", since it has extra benefits that are after all worth a point or two (and the cost is reduced to 2 if you have both evo and thaum already. It is after all a "sponsored magic").

1. You get a +1 bonus to one of the crafting specializations, this doesn't seem worth a whole refresh but since it effectively ignores the specialization stacking rules it can certainly be worth it.

2. It says you dont accidentally hex technology, if that was broadened interactions with all your magic and "Super-Science!" then it is indeed worth a whole refresh.

The only problem I see with allowing them both at the moment is the (unnecessary) restriction that "must use its modified casting skills regardless of what other powers they may possess", simply remove that restriction and it should be fine.

As to restricting due to common sense: No, I dont think it's common sense at all, there are plenty of books out there that have "magi-tech" and plenty of players who would be interesting in playing such a character. Im not saying to pander to the masses, but if a power is more useful to a larger player-base because it satisfies more of the "empty nooks" in the ruleset which allows for more diverse, interesting characters I'll almost always go for the less restrictive (but balanced) writeup.

[Pbartender]

Well, first off I'd say that a better "in canon" name for Super Science would be "Ferromancy", which is what the fey use to refer to human technology.

...

No, I dont think it's common sense at all, there are plenty of books out there that have "magi-tech" and plenty of players who would be interesting in playing such a character. Im not saying to pander to the masses, but if a power is more useful to a larger player-base because it satisfies more of the "empty nooks" in the ruleset which allows for more diverse, interesting characters I'll almost always go for the less restrictive (but balanced) writeup.

It may be a fine distinction, but there may be a little bit of confusion about what Super-Science! is actually meant to represent...

Flavor-wise, it is not supposed to be magic -- not in the slightest.  It's not really meant to be magi-tech, and not exactly Ferromancy, either (though, the confusion, in or out of game, with either of those would be easy to understand).  It's science and technology, but taken to such an advanced degree that its effects could easily be confused for magic by your average person.

Because of the basic restrictions of mortal magic, Science! will most emphatically not play well with magic, even though it works very much like magic (by the rules, at any rate), and often looks very much like magic.

The goal was to use existing rules to allow for characters who want use advanced semi-futuristic gadgets to create their special effects.

[KOFFEYKID]

Yes it is a restriction on mortal magic, not all characters are mortal. Odin has super awesome technology sitting on his desk and he certainly has buckets of mojo to go along with it. This means that Magic and Technology can and do coexist in Canon, only that it is very difficult for Mortals to pull it off.

As far as the goal of the power, it accomplishes it wonderfully, and it would be satisfied in either case. Allowing the power it self to allow magic to function with technology does not prevent it from satisfying the goal of sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic. Keeping it from functioning with magic on the other hand precludes a swath of character concepts.

I dont see why, in this case, we cant have our cake and eat it too.

[Pbartender]

I dont see why, in this case, we cant have our cake and eat it too.

You can have your cake and eat it too...   But you can't eat your cake and have it too.

So, the question then, is how do we make the distinction between Super-Science! and Magic, and keep them independent of each other?   I don't necessarily have a problem with people trying to mix the two -- though mortal magic hexing will have a tendency to complicate the effort.  But without a restriction of that sort, anybody who wants to be a Super-Scientist! automatically knows how to do traditional magic as well, even if it doesn't make sense that they should.

That's, really, the trickiest part about this particular template.  How to keep Science! and Magic independent of each other, while still using the same rules for both.  Is there a better way to word the restriction?  Is there a better way to do the whole thing?

[polkaneverdies]

In the canon and from Woj humans hex technology because they are inherently conflicted beings. The current dv magic rules have that conflict express itself by fouling tech. It used to be develop boils, make milk sour, cause flame to burn different colors.

Hexing doesn't apply to Odin or Lea or Mab, etc. because they are not human.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that if we scrapped the restrictions entirely it would still be possible to run Super-Science! as non-magic. That's mostly a matter of fluff. And if someone wants to use Super-Science! to represent actual magical technology, more power to them.

The power works mechanically regardless of this. I think we should leave the final decision to Pbartender, who wrote the power.

So, Pbartender, what sort of interaction would you like Super-Science! to have with other spellcasting powers?

And other than that, does anyone have a bone to pick with Super-Science!?

If not, then do we even need to write up Magi-Tech? The two are very similar. (This is mostly aimed at KOFFEYKID, who wrote Magi-Tech. I want to know if Super-Science! covers his vision of Magi-Tech well enough to render it redundant.)

[KOFFEYKID]

If you keep the restrictions on Super-Science! then my version of Magi-Tech is still valuable to a player, actually if you are a true spell-caster of any stripe my version will be likely a bigger bang for your buck.

The player who just wants Super-Science! by itself will do well, considering that it is sort of like evocation and thaumaturgy for 4 refresh instead of 6, though its key skills are probably slightly less useful and it has more restrictions (requiring foci etc) which makes it less flexible.

[Pbartender]

So, Pbartender, what sort of interaction would you like Super-Science! to have with other spellcasting powers?

The original intent was to not have it interact directly with other spellcasting powers -- aside from hexing -- while not necessarily prohibiting a character from taking them and benefiting from them.  The goal was to make it possible for one of my players to create a character that relied on a wide variety of non-magical gadgets, rather than a character that mixed technology and magic.

That said, there's really nothing preventing anyone from deleting that particular restriction, should they choose to use Super-Science!.  And that doesn't bother me in the slightest.