How do you run glamours?

[BumblingBear]

I have not had minor or major glamours in any of my campaigns yet.  How do you all run them?

I find the fact that the RAW says regardless of roll, one cannot pierce a glamour veil worrisome.. to say the least.

Plus, since it says "a moment of conentration" in the raw, does that mean that as a supplemental action, a PC or NPC can attack, but simultaneously roll deceit or discipline to make the attack look like it's coming from somewhere else, functioning as an ambush?

It seems to me that this is one of the most OP powers in the RAW.

[mithrandirthewhite]

I havnt played DFRPG, but from the books the only way to pierce the glamours of the Fae is by Wizard's Sight, or a means that acted in a similar way like Harry's eye cream stuff that works the same way without the dangers of the Sight.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd require a full action.

And if you beat the Discipline/Deceit roll, you'll be able to work the truth behind the illusion out. You'll still see the illusion, but it won't have any meaningful effect on you.

Your reading makes it OP. So I suggest that you read it differently.

[toturi]

All RAW states that there is a possiblity that even if a Glamour veil is discovered, it is not pierced. It does not state that it is always so. And as stated the Sight and magical effects that specifically enable someone to see through illusions should also pierce Glamour veils.

[BumblingBear]

I'd require a full action.

And if you beat the Discipline/Deceit roll, you'll be able to work the truth behind the illusion out. You'll still see the illusion, but it won't have any meaningful effect on you.

Your reading makes it OP. So I suggest that you read it differently.

Even with a full action that seems pretty hard core.  A normal maneuver gives +2 on an attack roll.  A successful ambush can effectively add +5 to an attack roll.

Actually, couldn't a character with a high stealth do the same thing?  As such, isn't this power just stealth repackaged to use discipline instead... and be invisible rather than skulking?

I guess the thing that throws me off the most is, "If the veil is discovered, it isn't necessary (sic) pierced--but the discoverer can tell that it's there and that it's wrong."   So... what the hell does that mean?

Seemings are much more straight forward.

All RAW states that there is a possiblity that even if a Glamour veil is discovered, it is not pierced. It does not state that it is always so. And as stated the Sight and magical effects that specifically enable someone to see through illusions should also pierce Glamour veils.

See the above quote.

[MijRai]

Even with a full action that seems pretty hard core.  A normal maneuver gives +2 on an attack roll.  A successful ambush can effectively add +5 to an attack roll.

Actually, couldn't a character with a high stealth do the same thing?  As such, isn't this power just stealth repackaged to use discipline instead... and be invisible rather than skulking?

I guess the thing that throws me off the most is, "If the veil is discovered, it isn't necessary (sic) pierced--but the discoverer can tell that it's there and that it's wrong."   So... what the hell does that mean?

Seemings are much more straight forward.



See the above quote.

Think about it like Harry looking at Grumm. He saw him, and he knew he wasn't right, but he didn't see right through it. It would also cover Seemings, I think. You can see the weird frog hopping around, and you know something is wrong, but it doesn't instantly dissapear as soon as someone sees it is fake.

[BumblingBear]

Think about it like Harry looking at Grumm. He saw him, and he knew he wasn't right, but he didn't see right through it. It would also cover Seemings, I think. You can see the weird frog hopping around, and you know something is wrong, but it doesn't instantly dissapear as soon as someone sees it is fake.

Ok that makes sense.

So you think if someone figures out that someone is cloaked in a veil (their alertness or whatever roll meets or beats the discipline or stealth roll of the glamour) that you'd still be able to attack them?

I guess if GMing, the way I could handle it is that if someone pierces the glamour, if they don't actually pierce it, they could see... like a shadowy figure or something.

Like, being able to see that someone/something is there, but not being able to ID them seems to go with the spirit of the RAW, right?

[mithrandirthewhite]

That would be similar to Harry in White Night, so yes that would work.

[BumblingBear]

That would be similar to Harry in White Night, so yes that would work.

Excellent.  Question answered.  It was very important that I understand this soon since the fae are going to be featured heavily in my campaign soon.

[Rechan]

Also in the novels, Harry points out that the werewolves can find Molly under a veil in under a minute. So there has to be something else going on than a simple Alertness roll for the wolves.

Another good example for "You perceive something is there and it's wrong". Look at the short story AAAA Wizardry in the Our Story book. Harry perceives the boggart's there because he can't detect something. The boggart's veil basically creates a cutout of nothing in a place where there should be something. This is in a specific location - the kids closet.

That's how I'd run a veil. If there's for instance a vampire using a veil to cloak itself, they might see a ripple of shadow along the area of the veil. They can't see through it, but it looks or feels like a barely-there field or curtain around the area.

[Belial666]

Guys, you are going at it the wrong way. The "not being pierced" thing means that if someone sees through the veil, he sees through the veil - unlike other blocks, the veil doesn't go away suddenly. Which means that if you see through a veil, your allies don't automatically get to see through one as well.


As for the werewolves finding Moly in under a minute, they got echoes of the Beast for +1 to their rolls in this case. Also, Moly is not some master wizard yet; her quick veils are about power 5 or so. A half-dozen people all with effective alertness 4 searching for her means they will roll above her veil soon enough.

[Papa Gruff]

Guys, you are going at it the wrong way. The "not being pierced" thing means that if someone sees through the veil, he sees through the veil - unlike other blocks, the veil doesn't go away suddenly. Which means that if you see through a veil, your allies don't automatically get to see through one as well.


As for the werewolves finding Moly in under a minute, they got echoes of the Beast for +1 to their rolls in this case. Also, Moly is not some master wizard yet; her quick veils are about power 5 or so. A half-dozen people all with effective alertness 4 searching for her means they will roll above her veil soon enough.

Also a veil is technically not a glamour...

[Tsunami]

Also a veil is technically not a glamour...

Veils are part of the "Glamours" power, hence veils are glamours, of sorts.

[ways and means]

What about multiple ambushes does attacking whilst veiled automatically mean you drop your veil?

[Papa Gruff]

Veils are part of the "Glamours" power, hence veils are glamours, of sorts.

Your recognize the "of sorts" part of your comment and the "technically" in mine buddy? That means my statement is true while yours is too.