Manuever, Attack, or Taking Out: How Would You Do This?

[Becq]

Normally yes, but my reading of page 265 is that when a wizard is casting a spell whose effect is to inflict a specific consequence the wizard gets to pick it.  That you are specifically cursing someone with your chosen effect.

I think this is true within reason.  A good example that relates to this is the love potion example on YS281.  In this example, a specific aspect is chosen at the creation of the potion, though it is the result of some negotiation between the player and GM.  I think this sums to 'the wizard gets to pick it within some reasonable limit'.

So, Richard, I need to ask: with your reading, would you have it deal enough Stress to only cover the equivalent of the Consequence (in this case, 4), or would you need to map it out the way I did (4 for the desired consequence plus more than enough to cover the full stress track again)?

YS282 has the rules for this.  For the spell to work, you need to beat the target's defense roll with enough shifts to bypass their stress track and inflict the consequence.  To guarantee success, you would need their defense skill + 4 (max defense die roll) + stress track + 4 (for a moderate consequence).  If you use a less powerful spell, then they'd make a defense roll, and you might find that you only inflicted a minor consequence, or even stress only.

[Crion]

YS282 has the rules for this.  For the spell to work, you need to beat the target's defense roll with enough shifts to bypass their stress track and inflict the consequence.  To guarantee success, you would need their defense skill + 4 (max defense die roll) + stress track + 4 (for a moderate consequence).  If you use a less powerful spell, then they'd make a defense roll, and you might find that you only inflicted a minor consequence, or even stress only.

Ah-ha. This is what I was trying to find. Thank you for noting that one! This would mean, in this case, my player wouldn't be sitting at a 20, then. It would be base 4 (desired consequence), +8 (beat the best estimated defense skill and roll), +5 (to overflow the stress track), making this a Complexity 17 before wards/thresholds. Does that look correct?

In that case, it would still be sitting at a 20 to punch through the threshold then, unless they can get her outside, which is what this spell is for. . .

Am I misreading anything?

--Crion

[Richard_Chilton]

I think this is true within reason.  A good example that relates to this is the love potion example on YS281.  In this example, a specific aspect is chosen at the creation of the potion, though it is the result of some negotiation between the player and GM.  I think this sums to 'the wizard gets to pick it within some reasonable limit'.

That's more or less how I feel - if the effect sounds unreasonable for a mild consequence then make it a moderate one.  Since every rite is more or less a custom one the wizard designing the spell is also designing the consequence.

YS282 has the rules for this.  For the spell to work, you need to beat the target's defense roll with enough shifts to bypass their stress track and inflict the consequence.  To guarantee success, you would need their defense skill + 4 (max defense die roll) + stress track + 4 (for a moderate consequence).  If you use a less powerful spell, then they'd make a defense roll, and you might find that you only inflicted a minor consequence, or even stress only.

To me a spell meant to inflict a consequence is an all or nothing one.  It either works as intended or it doesn't work at all.

For example, cursing a runner before a race to have the "Sore Leg" moderate consequence.  If the defense roll is ---- then there are 8 unused steps in the spell.  The caster doesn't get to add those extra steps to make it 12 steps of consequence and hit him with "Broken Leg" (severe) or "Lame for life" (extreme).  If the runner happens to be behind a threshold or it's drizzling rain to the point where there's a -1 or -2 from the running water and the spell comes up two steps short, then the caster can't change his mind mid spell and hit the runner with a mild consequence.

And dropping the "maximum dice roll" steps can sometimes save a lot of prep and casting time.  If you make the spell so it works when the roll is +1 or less then it will work 81.5% of the time.  If you aim for +0 it works 61.7% of the time - and that's two less aspects you need to prep the spell.  Of course then you risk it not working, but if you need to rush then you need to rush and hope you get lucky

[Richard_Chilton]

Ah-ha. This is what I was trying to find. Thank you for noting that one! This would mean, in this case, my player wouldn't be sitting at a 20, then. It would be base 4 (desired consequence), +8 (beat the best estimated defense skill and roll), +5 (to overflow the stress track), making this a Complexity 17 before wards/thresholds. Does that look correct?

In that case, it would still be sitting at a 20 to punch through the threshold then, unless they can get her outside, which is what this spell is for. . .

Am I misreading anything?

--Crion

That looks right to me - only threshold for somewhere that people have been living for centuries (like a centuries old manner) might be higher than 3...

Richard

[MorkaisChosen]

Normally yes, but my reading of page 265 is that when a wizard is casting a spell whose effect is to inflict a specific consequence the wizard gets to pick it.  That you are specifically cursing someone with your chosen effect.

Ah, that makes sense. Wouldn't really want to allow that for Evocation, but Thaum? Sure...