Conflict action: forced movement?

[MAK]

I haven't been able to find any ruling in YS for forcibly moving opponents in a conflict (apart from grappling rules that cover physically throwing someone). The options to affect someone seem to be limited to stress, consequences, and maneuver aspects. So how to cover situations like air evocation blasts (physical push), panic-inducing fear (mental push), or siren song (mental pull)? I've used a rule of thumb of one zone of forced movement per shift, as with sprinting, but it quickly makes such actions quite powerful. Another issue that has come up is how to deal with pushing someone to "certain doom" from a rooftop, cliff edge or ship - how big chance should the victim have to resist such maneuver?

Any ideas or experience?

[My Dark Sunshine]

Another issue that has come up is how to deal with pushing someone to "certain doom" from a rooftop, cliff edge or ship - how big chance should the victim have to resist such maneuver?

That would strike me as an attack, dealing stress. Consequences, or a taken out result, would reflect the nature of said attack.

As for pushing/pulling someone with magic, why, that is simply the fluff of an attack. A kinetic blast can throw someone into a wall. Providing the wall is in your zone, and it makes sense narratively to describe it so. One could I guess make a declaration that the blast moves them zone-wise, if it is that necessary.

As for mechanically moving someone from zone to zone. The best I can suggest is you read Harry's side text on page 253YS about 'move actions'. Personally I would suggest: a contest of some sorts. Possibly a consequential contest. The spells shifts being the Evocators value, resisted by the target's endurance or athletics. I know they're officially non-conflict actions, but it would strike my as the most fluent way of dealing with it. 

[InFerrumVeritas]

I actually think it's pretty simple.  

To move: Attack vs. Athletics or Might, success moves one zone and can be off cliff.  

To move someone else as an attack (throw baddie into each other): Attack vs. Athletics or Might (baddie1, success moves).  Targeted opponent (baddie2) rolls defense vs. same attack.  Could deal stress or be maneuver to apply "KNOCKED DOWN" temporary (sticky as they'd have to take at least a supplemental action to stand back up) aspect.

[MAK]

As long as moving opponents around do not involve moving over multiple zones I agree that adjucation is simple - "normal" aspect-granting maneuvers are usually enough. If the goal is to take the opponent out of the fight, doing it by movement is purely a flavor issue and can be modeled by normal stress rules. The situation becomes more difficult in situations like trying to lure someone from quite far away to your location by magic (the Siren Song) or vice versa

[Tedronai]

The situation becomes more difficult in situations like trying to lure someone from quite far away to your location by magic (the Siren Song) or vice versa

Maneuvers invoked-for-effect to trigger a compel.  Or mental attacks invoking-for-effect the resultant consequences in the same manner.  Or using a resulting concession or taken-out result to model them coming to you (and the Bad Things (tm) that follow)

[MijRai]

Grapples allow you to throw your target (I believe 1 zone, with more added if you have Strength powers), and give the feel that you could actually get a grip on them to move them.

[devonapple]

Maneuvers invoked-for-effect to trigger a compel.  Or mental attacks invoking-for-effect the resultant consequences in the same manner.  Or using a resulting concession or taken-out result to model them coming to you (and the Bad Things (tm) that follow)

I concur! You can accomplish a lot with a "Taken Out" result.

[BumblingBear]

A lot of people disagree with me, but I like the idea of maneuvers invoked for effect to attain movement.

[Silverblaze]

A lot of people disagree with me, but I like the idea of maneuvers invoked for effect to attain movement.

Works for me. How much does each manuever grant in movement?

Otherwise, our GM seems comfortable with attack vs defense :  each point the attack exceeds the defense 1 zone is moved (usually in an uncontolled fashion barrign true telekineses or the like assuming the atttack was designed to move someone or something.  Otherwise he and hte player work together for knockback results as fit the raw force and story.

[evileeyore]

A lot of people disagree with me, but I like the idea of maneuvers invoked for effect to attain movement.

That's where my thoughts were going on this one...


As for requiring the target be Taken Out?  What?  Only if it's a "move target into zone and conflict ends" type of thing.  For just combat jockeying it's likely no more important than laying a a temporary Aspect on the target.

[devonapple]

As for requiring the target be Taken Out?  What?  Only if it's a "move target into zone and conflict ends" type of thing.  For just combat jockeying it's likely no more important than laying a a temporary Aspect on the target.

I think using Taken Out would be most appropriate for a Siren Song scenario or the like, rather than telekinetic maneuvering in a pitched combat. Having the target be under your power and vulnerable sounds more like a Taken Out than a combat Maneuver.

[MorkaisChosen]

I think using Taken Out would be most appropriate for a Siren Song scenario or the like, rather than telekinetic maneuvering in a pitched combat. Having the target be under your power and vulnerable sounds more like a Taken Out than a combat Maneuver.

There's a little leeway there. A siren song drawing you closer, but leaving you able to act, as long as you stay close, could just be a Consequence or Maneouvre.

[devonapple]

There's a little leeway there. A siren song drawing you closer, but leaving you able to act, as long as you stay close, could just be a Consequence or Maneouvre.

It's true! It all comes back to the strategy of Reasoning From Effect. Determine what you want to accomplish, and then work backwards from there. The same "attack" can take so many forms based on the current narrative needs.

[Tedronai]

Yes, when I suggested a Concession or Taken-out result, I was referring to when those Bad Things (tm) I referenced would then be inevitable, thus making the true conflict a matter of whether the victim is drawn in, rather than what happens once they're there.