+0 Catch for WCVs?

[tymire]

Both sides seem to have started with their conclusion. What's more, people are trying to use their conclusions to prove those very same conclusions.

Isn't that the entire point of posting things on forums?   

[BumblingBear]

This argument is, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid.

Both sides seem to have started with their conclusion. What's more, people are trying to use their conclusions to prove those very same conclusions.

Alright, just needed to say that. Sorry if that was rude.

Sancta, you're one of the most patient and logical posters here.  You also have near infinite patience with others on the boards.

I wouldn't expect you to grasp the silliness of us more... easily riled up posters lol.

BTW, that was not snark.  It was an honest compliment.

Isn't that the entire point of posting things on forums?  

Indeed... lol.

[Richard_Chilton]

I keep telling myself I'll stop posting on this subject.

What can I say? There's something in me that sometimes needs to grind a topic into the ground.  Sometimes you just have to give into your sadistic necrophiliac bestiality impulses and beat that dead horse a few more times.

Richard

[devonapple]

Isn't that the entire point of posting things on forums?   

Well, yes, we do want community feedback, but occasionally a discussion reveals an entrenched set of irreconcilable opinions. It goes from peer review to an ideological debate. Recognizing that it has done so can be tricky, because each side thinks the other is Wrong, and it isn't always clear to each participant that they can say:
1. I cannot endorse your solution for reasons X, Y and Z.
2. However, I can see where you are coming from.
3. Let's leave these thoughts for those who come after, so that they can determine what's best for them and their game table.

[evileeyore]

You really think that finding an minor talent with the ability to see/smell/hear/feel the presence of True Love is going to be even meaningfully feasible?
It's not like 4400, here, with a 'Supernatural Power Registry' mandated by law.  These people aren't listed in the telephone book, and they don't generally advertise what they are capable of, if they even truly grasp its significance.

Regardless it comes to a simple aspect of the game:

Which is more interesting?  That they can find someone who is in True Love, or not?  Can they or can't they?


I'm pretty sure the rules say "Never just say No".   

[Tedronai]

Regardless it comes to a simple aspect of the game:

Which is more interesting?  That they can find someone who is in True Love, or not?  Can they or can't they?


I'm pretty sure the rules say "Never just say No".   

The Dark Powers are always willing to help.

Just 'tapping an npc with the power to see true love without too much difficulty', though?  Not a chance.  This is the kind of thing that's going to take serious effort, and with no guarantees of success.
Unless the GM has orchestrated the entire situation to absolutely demand that such an npc be readily available, but then, the same goes for Doilies of Unmaking to save your RCI girlfriend.

[Novembermike]

Regardless it comes to a simple aspect of the game:

Which is more interesting?  That they can find someone who is in True Love, or not?  Can they or can't they?


I'm pretty sure the rules say "Never just say No".   

You can just say No to anything unreasonable. Let them try, and if they have a really awesome and creative way of doing it maybe have something work. But there's no "we'll just find something that counters that +0 catch".

[InFerrumVeritas]

I think hunting down ways to "bottle True Love" for a weapon could be a great adventure idea that leads into a large scale conflict (or conflict head) with the White Court.

That's the type of conflict that one should spend time preparing for anyway.  So that they can see your preparations and act against them while you secretly orchestrate your own plans behind their back (while simultaneously playing into their hands) before you just hit them with as much firepower as you can muster.

[BumblingBear]

Meh - perhaps part of the problem in communication here is that I am running a submerged campaign where one of my characters IS a WCV, and one of my characters is a 10 physical stress track scion of Odin.

A mook WCV is not much of a challenge to my players so I haven't given it a lot of though, and the catch wouldn't be very hard for them to find since they can already waste one in short time anyway.

[Novembermike]

Meh - perhaps part of the problem in communication here is that I am running a submerged campaign where one of my characters IS a WCV, and one of my characters is a 10 physical stress track scion of Odin.

A mook WCV is not much of a challenge to my players so I haven't given it a lot of though, and the catch wouldn't be very hard for them to find since they can already waste one in short time anyway.

That's the thing. What do the players gain by subverting the catch? Not much, he's just able to take an extra minor consequence and he's tougher between scenes. How hard is it to do? Pretty damn hard given it's a +0 catch. It's just not worth it and you'd have to bend a lot of setting stuff to do it.

[Tedronai]

the catch wouldn't be very hard for them to find since they can already waste one in short time anyway.

These two statements do not, in fact, follow logically.

The fact that they can 'waste' a WCV without implementing the catch has no bearing on how easy it would be for them to implement the catch.

[Wolfwood2]

These two statements do not, in fact, follow logically.

The fact that they can 'waste' a WCV without implementing the catch has no bearing on how easy it would be for them to implement the catch.

It does in the sense that it becomes not worthwhile for the GM to spend a lot of time throwing obstacles in their way.  If the PCs are bound and determined to satisfy that catch and willing to spend as much play time as necessary to do so, then the GM is more likely to concede and let them do it.  Since it's not going to matter much in the end, the quest has relatively little narrative weight.  Why should he put focus on it?  Just say "Yes" and move on.

[BumblingBear]

It does in the sense that it becomes not worthwhile for the GM to spend a lot of time throwing obstacles in their way.  If the PCs are bound and determined to satisfy that catch and willing to spend as much play time as necessary to do so, then the GM is more likely to concede and let them do it.  Since it's not going to matter much in the end, the quest has relatively little narrative weight.  Why should he put focus on it?  Just say "Yes" and move on.

Exactly.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Since the catch to a WCV is not going to make a fight significantly easier or add much to the narrative, I don't have the time to waste on it.

If my PCs really want to find a WCV catch, I will let them without too much difficulty.  If it were a lower refresh campaign and a WCV was the big bad, my feelings on the matter would change quite a bit.

I also wanted to the catch to be easier to find since I have a PC who is a WCV, and I would like to throw his catch at him once in a while.

[ways and means]

Exactly.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Since the catch to a WCV is not going to make a fight significantly easier or add much to the narrative, I don't have the time to waste on it.

If my PCs really want to find a WCV catch, I will let them without too much difficulty.  If it were a lower refresh campaign and a WCV was the big bad, my feelings on the matter would change quite a bit.

I also wanted to the catch to be easier to find since I have a PC who is a WCV, and I would like to throw his catch at him once in a while.

My opinion about the catch's value is that it varies on your interpretation of true love and my interpretation of true love is probably a +1 or 2 refresh catch. That being said if you want to heavly use a white court vampires catch against him I would give him a refresh rebate for his trouble. The refresh rebate in my mind is all based on how often the catch will show up in game/life. If the catch will only show up as a major ground shaking event in a pc/npc life (once or twice in an entire campaign in my opinion otherwise it will lose its effect) then it warrants a +0 catch. A perfect example of a +0 catch fufillment was Nicodemeus his catch was satisfied only once (I think) in over a thousand year life span and he was shocked to the core when it happened. If the catch is going to be something you casually throw at a pc or npc then it warrants a higher refresh rebate.  

[BumblingBear]

My opinion about the catch's value is that it varies on your interpretation of true love and my interpretation of true love is probably a +1 or 2 refresh catch. That being said if you want to heavly use a white court vampires catch against him I would give him a refresh rebate for his trouble. The refresh rebate in my mind is all based on how often the catch will show up in game/life. If the catch will only show up as a major ground shaking event in a pc/npc life (once or twice in an entire campaign in my opinion otherwise it will lose its effect) then it warrants a +0 catch. A perfect example of a +0 catch fufillment was Nicodemeus his catch was satisfied only once (I think) in over a thousand year life span and he was shocked to the core when it happened. If the catch is going to be something you casually throw at a pc or npc then it warrants a higher refresh rebate.  

The PC in my campaign who is a WCV has a +1 refresh catch.