Monsters from Greek Mythology: Nemean Lion, Chimera, and Hydra

[InFerrumVeritas]

I actually think that Recovery might make you immortal if your catch isn't met.

Still don't like the custom power at all. Keying off of possible take-outs seems like a bad idea. Also, the way it works is unclear.

Why make decapitation necessary, anyway?

And if you've decided that they must take its heads off, why not just make that a mandatory part of the take-out description?

I don't think that the hydra is banishable. It is a physical creature after all.

I'm not happy with it either.  My only issue is this:  In nearly every depiction, Hydra's get harder to kill the longer you fight them unless you're keeping its heads from growing back.  How else would you model this?

I feel decapitation should be necessary otherwise the Hydra is simply too easy to kill.  It doesn't have the flavor of the myth or the difficulty of a challenger where you can't simply wear your opponent down.

The Hydra could theoretically rip off heads, although I would say that the creature's instincts would prevent it from ripping off a living head (a dead head, however, would be removed in order to allow the new ones to grow).  

[InFerrumVeritas]

Okay, I was playtesting the Hydra a bit.  I'm considering rewriting the Regneration power to this:

Hydra’s Regeneration: [-8]
Musts: You must attach a Catch to this power.  High concept must relate to being a Hydra.
Description: Whenever you lose your head, you grow two more.
I Got Better: Whenever you take a consequence and lose your head, you may tag the consequence for free to grow two new heads at the beginning of your next turn as a supplemental action.
It’s Just a Flesh Wound: You may take an additional Mild Consequence for each head you regrow with this power.  Each consequence you take results in losing one of your heads.
Stacked Catch: As Physical Immunity.

I've also found that I like this better for the extra heads (thanks Sanctaphrax):

Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.  
Coordinated Attack [-1] When attacking a single target, you may add 1 to the accuracy of an attack or maneuver directed at that target.

This almost exactly what Scant wrote up, but I removed the recovery trappings (and created the separate power).  I also added Coordinated Attack for benefit against a single target.

And to model the other benefits of multiple heads:

Multiple Heads: [-3]
Description: You have more heads than normal.
Musts: You must have a high concept relating to having multiple heads.
Skills Affected: Alertness, Scholarship, Investigation
Many Eyes and Ears: You gain a +2 bonus when using the Avoiding Surprise and Passive Awareness trappings of the Alertness Skill.  You also gain +1 to all Investigation rolls involving the Eavesdropping, Examination, and Surveillance trappings.
Two Heads are Better than One: Gain +1 on all rolls with the Scholarship skill.

This is basically a bundle of Stunts.

[Sanctaphrax]

Hydra's Regeneration looks good now, except for the part where a hydra is stupid not to decapitate itself repeatedly. How long do heads last? Is there an upper limit to the number of them? What stops a hydra from "head farming" itself?

I had another idea for using Extra Appendages against a single target. Allow spray attacks/maneuvers with only one target. So you can really punish someone with lousy defences, or just straight-up multiply your attacks with enough purchases of Excellent Coordination. (This idea might be broken, I'm not sure.)

[devonapple]

Hydra's Regeneration looks good now, except for the part where a hydra is stupid not to decapitate itself repeatedly. How long do heads last? Is there an upper limit to the number of them? What stops a hydra from "head farming" itself?

Well, a Hydra may not think of it, but an ecologist might: resource management. More heads might mean the Hydra requires (or at least seeks) more food. A Hydra could be self-aware enough to know that it will have a harder time maintaining 18 heads than it has maintaining 4.

What *could* stop it is simple instinct: creatures generally don't opt to hurt themselves. An intelligent creature might, alas, see the value in doing so, but Hydras are never intended as an intelligent challenge: just a cleverness/combat challenge. The Lernaean Hydra is ultimately a puzzle, and making it a monster may make sense from traditional RPG logic, but in a story-based game, perhaps we don't need to give the puzzle hit points.

I killed most of a D&D group once with a "puzzle" because I had used a Construct (hit points, attack bonus, saving throws) as the main component, which inadvertently contextualized the challenge as a combat challenge, not a puzzle challenge.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Instinct.  The hydra doesn't metagame.  To it, losing a head hurts.  Also, no head would want itself removed.  Ultimately, its a situation where the mechanic works in context and meta and powergaming with it should be discouraged. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.

Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?

[InFerrumVeritas]

Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.

Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?

You can say that selfinflicted damage doesn't count then. 

Although many creature features aren't necessarily balanced (I'm looking at you Greater Glamors).

If you don't mind, I'll post the final versions of evrything on that board Monday (finishing playtest this weekend).

[devonapple]

Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.

Some abilities should definitely be given that treatment, but other abilities are so far out there that any PC concept that would use them should require a lot of GM oversight anyway, and there is only so much one can do to make them player-proof. Which is not an excuse to not try, of course.

[Silverblaze]

Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.

Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?

99 times out of 100 I agree.

Sometimes, the Gm just needs a secret weapon and can use more overpowered things since the NPC will quite possibly die and not live to be overpwoered anotehr day

[toturi]

Sometimes, the Gm just needs a secret weapon and can use more overpowered things since the NPC will quite possibly die and not live to be overpwoered anotehr day

Overpowered NPCs don't die, they just Concede to overpower another day.