Monsters from Greek Mythology: Nemean Lion, Chimera, and Hydra

[Belial666]

Suffocation for the Nemean Lion is NOT easily found; it has supernatural strength and might +5. Nothing human can strangle it - and most supernatural creatures can't do it either. Humans could not do it physically even with machines - it is strong enough to rip off vault doors. Gasses that do suffocation are a nonissue due to its speed; it can take a supplemental to move out of the gassed zone without penalty if in the open or tear into the next room if in a closed space. So it is, at best, a +3 catch.

The chimaera's catch is not a +4 either; the catch of the Red Court is just as researchable (sunlight, fire, holy - the stomach stab is just a bonus), it is much broader and more easily weaponizable and it is a +3.


The Hydra's  regeneration assumes you are an idiot and use slashing damage against the Hydra. I got a bow or a machinegun. I shoot one of the heads and the Hydra takes stress. Eventually it is taken out. The head is full of holes but it is not removed thus the "grow two in the place of one" trick doesn't work. Ditto for lightning magic that shocks to death, entropy magic that turns target to dust upon takeout, ice magic that freezes the target, a vampire draining the target of blood and so on with any attack except slashing damage.
The Hydra should have just immunity to slashing with the bonus of the slashing attacks counting as maneuvers applying the "extra head" aspect a Hydra could tag for various bonuses.

[Sanctaphrax]

Excellent Coordination is indeed the substitute for Multiple Minds At Work and the head numbers.

I removed Multiple Minds At Work because straight skill bonuses are to be avoided on powers if at all possible (in my opinion).

It is intentionally very abstract, so that each purchase of Excellent Coordination can represent as many heads/arms/legs/tentacles/whatever as you like.

So the hydra could still have countless heads with the ability to recover three mild consequences.

[Wolfwood2]

PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.

It seems a bit much if the creatures are being built so that PCs will hit them a lot while avoiding being hit by the creatures ong enough to do something.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Suffocation for the Nemean Lion is NOT easily found; it has supernatural strength and might +5. Nothing human can strangle it - and most supernatural creatures can't do it either. Humans could not do it physically even with machines - it is strong enough to rip off vault doors. Gasses that do suffocation are a nonissue due to its speed; it can take a supplemental to move out of the gassed zone without penalty if in the open or tear into the next room if in a closed space. So it is, at best, a +3 catch.

The chimaera's catch is not a +4 either; the catch of the Red Court is just as researchable (sunlight, fire, holy - the stomach stab is just a bonus), it is much broader and more easily weaponizable and it is a +3.


The Hydra's  regeneration assumes you are an idiot and use slashing damage against the Hydra. I got a bow or a machinegun. I shoot one of the heads and the Hydra takes stress. Eventually it is taken out. The head is full of holes but it is not removed thus the "grow two in the place of one" trick doesn't work. Ditto for lightning magic that shocks to death, entropy magic that turns target to dust upon takeout, ice magic that freezes the target, a vampire draining the target of blood and so on with any attack except slashing damage.
The Hydra should have just immunity to slashing with the bonus of the slashing attacks counting as maneuvers applying the "extra head" aspect a Hydra could tag for various bonuses.

Makes sense. 

I actually thought about that for the Hydra, hence why I gave it Mythic Recovery with a Decapitation catch.  You have to completely remove the heads otherwise it'll come back at you.  Maybe not immediately, but eventually.  Now, you could fill it full of lead and kill it, then remove and cauterize the heads to keep it down of course.  I suppose I might want to tack on some more toughness though.

Oh, please note that I am taking all of your suggestions into consideration, but before I make any more changes to the write-ups I would like to consider everything fully and hopefully playtest these a bit more.  I'll of course credit the originators of the ideas in the edits.

[Belial666]

Remember that Mythic Recovery doesn't make you unkillable. If you take too much damage you still die though smart opponents will usually take consequences and once they are considerably damaged "fake it" until they heal (i.e. concede to lose the fight).

[InFerrumVeritas]

Remember that Mythic Recovery doesn't make you unkillable. If you take too much damage you still die though smart opponents will usually take consequences and once they are considerably damaged "fake it" until they heal (i.e. concede to lose the fight).

Yeah, I'm trying to find a way around that.

[ways and means]

Yeah, I'm trying to find a way around that.

Physical Immunity with a regenerative effect, its how I do wolverine style healing factors. 

[InFerrumVeritas]

Physical Immunity with a regenerative effect, its how I do wolverine style healing factors. 

Isn't -8 a bit extreme for a character that can still be taken out physically, dealt consequences, etc, but you just have to satisfy a specific circumstance to permanently kill?

I suppose I could just attach a -1 or -2 power "Unkillable" that means you must satisfy the Catch to permanently kill a creature...

[ways and means]

Physical Immunity with a good catch will probably work out at about -6 the same as mythic recovery.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Physical Immunity with a good catch will probably work out at about -6 the same as mythic recovery.

Sure, but as written physical immunity prevents damage, not allows you to recover from it.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply attach an extension to Mythic Recovery (even for -2 making it cost the same as PI)?  I mean, you'd have to essentially rewrite Physical Immunity anyway.

[ways and means]

If you can instantly recover from damage it is the same as not taking it.

[InFerrumVeritas]

So you're suggesting something like:

Physical Immunity (flavored as instant regeneration)-8
   Stacked Catch (Decapitation: attacks to the head and neck that can feasibly remove it, all heads must be decapitated, easily researchable)+4
[Notes: The catch is +2 because it is very easy to find out that you can cut off a Hydra's head.  Nearly all of the lore of the monster relates to it.  Attacks that can feasibly remove a head are quite common: cutting, burning, slashing, automatic weapons, acid, etc. so another +2  Theoretically, a GM could rule that you'd have to be aiming at the head and neck for this to work, requiring a maneuver and reducing this to a total of +3 or even +2, but as a GM I wouldn't require the maneuver so I'll leave it at +4.]

Hydra's Regeneration: [-8]
Musts: You must attach a Catch to this power.
Description: Whenever you lose your head, you grow two more.
Effects:
They Keep Coming Back: Whenever an attack deals enough stress to take you out, your head is removed.  At the beginning of your next turn you grow two new heads as a supplemental action unless this power's catch is satisfied before.
Two Heads are Better than One: You gain an additional stress box for each head you have.

Catch (Fire/cauterization, easily researchable)+4

[Notes: This power is based on Physical Immunity, so I gave it the -8 refresh.  Basically, if you're taken out you gain more stress making you effectively immune to damage.  The catch is very easy to weaponize and easy to research, making it a +4.]

So, essentially, the total cost of the Hydra's regenerative powers (Physical Immunity plus Hydra's Regeneration) with all of the catches is the same as Physical Immunity with a +0 catch, which I think is fair.

[Belial666]

Does anything prevent the Hydra from ripping off its own heads pre-combat until it gets a sufficiently high number of heads (and stress boxes) to be physically unbeatable?



Also, creatures like this is why I play Spirit, Faith or Void spellcasters. Multiheaded regenerating monstrous bruiser coming my way? Lemme get my Spiritual Evisceration / Banishment rotes.

[Sanctaphrax]

I actually think that Recovery might make you immortal if your catch isn't met.

Still don't like the custom power at all. Keying off of possible take-outs seems like a bad idea. Also, the way it works is unclear.

Why make decapitation necessary, anyway?

And if you've decided that they must take its heads off, why not just make that a mandatory part of the take-out description?

I don't think that the hydra is banishable. It is a physical creature after all.

[Belial666]

Rip open gate, big enough might effect to force target through. You only need a successful might roll and enough shifts for a brief gateway.
Of course, physically casting someone to the more interesting places might require lots of shifts _{coughoutergatescough}


The bit about immortal and recovery is debatable. Lots of creatures got it (like Denarians) but they still died. OTOH, Uberghouls shrugged off being torn in two with Mythic Recovery. Maybe that was some sort of necromantic ritual to cast a block vs death on them beforehand (i.e. a block that does not stop an attack but prevents it from killing you). Or maybe Uberghouls are supposed to have Mythic Recovery + Living Dead. Technically, Mythic Recovery being a supernatural power, it trumps the "no natural healing" of living dead.

And living dead makes you unkillable, provided a form of damage specific to your nature is not used. (i.e. zombies and incineration, black court and decapitation/bodily destruction and so on)