Monsters from Greek Mythology: Nemean Lion, Chimera, and Hydra

[InFerrumVeritas]

So, I've been statting up some of the monsters from Greek myths (primarily from Herakles' Twelve Labors) and figured I'd post them here.  This is the first one that I've finished:

Nemean Lion
High Concept: Mythic Monster
Other Aspects: Man-Eater; Fearless Predator; Scion of the Chimera
Skills: Fists+5, Endurance+4, Athletics+4, Alertness+3, Might+5, Stealth+3, Survival+3, Intimidation+3, Other skills default to Mediocre or Fair.
Powers:
Physical Immunity-8
       Stacked Catch+4 (Own Claws, Only Applies to Cutting and Piercing, Researchable)
Catch+4 (Suffocation, Easily Found, Researchable)
       Mythic Toughness-6
       Inhuman Recovery-2
Inhuman Speed-2
Supernatural Strength-4
Claws-1
Armor Rending-3 (Claws ignore all armor)
Stress:
Physical 0000(000000)
Mental 00
Social 00

Notes:
The Nemean Lion represents quite a physical challenge.  Its hide makes it immune to slashing or piercing damage (swords, knives, spears, bullets, arrows, etc) but not to other types of damage (magic, bludgeoning, etc).  Of course, this other damage still must bypass the lion's incredible toughness.  Of course, the lion still needs to breathe.

The Lion acts on Epic initiative, so it usually goes first.  It fights aggressively, allowing its incredible toughness and impenetrable hide ignore virtually any blow.  It attacks and defends at Superb (using Might when it needs to enhance its Fists roll for attacking) and effectively has Weapon 6 Claws that ignore any armor score the target has.  If you get close, it will probably rend you to shreds.  

In a grapple, the Lion is Epic and can deal three-stress hits when successful (there is a reason Herakles beat it with a club and strangled it while it was asleep).

Chimera:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088733.html#msg1088733

Hydra:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088942.html#msg1088942
EDIT: Added Good Intimidation, thanks.

[Sanctaphrax]

Looks pretty good. I especially like the catches.

The Stacked Catch should probably be worth either +3 or +5. I suppose +4 is fairly reasonable, but I don't know how you arrived at that figure.

Armour-Rending looks a little sketchy. It's probably slightly overpriced, but who cares?

He should have at least Good Intimidation.

PS: There's already a thread for this.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18191.0.html

[citadel97501]

There is an armor penetration stunt under Weaponry on the Home Brew list, that reduces the amount of armor by 2, I think using that instead of your Armor rending power seems fitting. . .

[InFerrumVeritas]

Well, the Nemean Lion's claws are supposed to be unique in that they can penetrate any armor (even its own skin).  I came up with the +3 because I figured a +2 Weapon Rating was worth -1 Refresh (Claws).  I halved this cost since it wouldn't have an effect against an unarmored opponent (so -1 for ignoring 2 points of armor).  I figured tripling this would be reasonable (ignoring 6 points of armor is practically ignoring all armor, and I figured the cost of spellcasting was more than enough to justify the power).  When I wrote the power up, I wrote that it has to be applied to Claws (to prevent it from being to heavily abused).  I'm okay with it being expensive as I wanted to keep it out of player hands.

I came up with the +4 Stacked Catch because it only applied against penetrative attacks (+2) and was easily researchable (+2, I mean, you can wiki it or go to your local library). 

[MijRai]

Add Presence too. Your reputation is held by Presence, and people knew of the Nemean Lion.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I statted up the Chimera too (I know, not one of the 12 labors, but I worked on it when I was statting up the Hydra which is coming soon).

Chimera
High Concept: Mythic Three-Headed Monster
Other Aspects: Many Beasts, One Monster; Close-Combatant’s Nightmare; Force of Destruction
Skills: Weapons+5, Fists+5, Athletics+4, Endurance+4, Intimidation+3, Alertness+3, Survival+3, Presence+2
Powers:
Breath Weapon (Fire)-2
Catch (Ingested Lead, Researchable, Can Be Obtained Easily)+4
   Supernatural Toughness-4
   Supernatural Recovery-4
Multi-Headed Attack-7 (Snake, Goat, Lion)
Inhuman Speed-2
Supernatural Strength-4
Poisonous Claws-3 (Fangs of snake-headed tail)
Hulking Size-2
Stress:
Physical 0000(00)(0000)
Mental 00
Social 000
Notes:
The Chimera acts on Epic initiative.  It is incredibly tough with its only weakness being ingested lead, which is incredibly poisonous.  Up close, the Chimera’s multiple heads represent a very difficult challenge even for multiple opponents.  The Chimera is incredibly aggressive, often attacking even when unprovoked.  It attacks and defends at Epic.  It likes to begin combat with its breath weapon (Weapon 2 fire), then close in and poison its opponents with its snake head.  Its horns, claws and fangs are all effectively Weapon 6.  Against multiple opponents, the Chimera uses Multi-Headed Attack.  An effective battle tactic is maneuvering to aim just when the Chimera opens its mouth and attack there with a lead weapon (lead tipped spear, bullets).

Multi-Headed Attack [-Varies]: -3 initially
Requirements: Must have high concept relating to having multiple heads.  Must have a way of attacking with each head (Claws and/or Breath Weapon)
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons
Effects:
Multiple Targets: You may make a spray attack with your fangs and/or breath weapon against a maximum number of targets equal to the total number of heads you have.  Fangs (Claws) must be used against adjacent targets, but breath weapons may be used either against adjacent targets or targets one zone away.  You make a single roll (either Weapons or Fists, whichever is higher), but apply the different weapon properties of each type of attack.  
Multiple Minds at Work: You gain a +1 per extra head to all attack and block rolls.
Venomous Assault [-2 (one time, not per head)]: If you have Venomous claws (or a Poisonous Breath Weapon), you may opt to place a POISONED aspect on the target upon a successful spray attack instead of dealing stress.
Cost: -3 for two heads, -2 for each additional head

[Silverblaze]

I statted up the Chimera too (I know, not one of the 12 labors, but I worked on it when I was statting up the Hydra which is coming soon).

Considering that one of the twelve labors was shoveling horse crap, which would stink to stat up (ha! see what I did there...sorry)...I think you're safe

I think the Chimera would be pretty powerful in a game...since the powers are likely unique to the creature (or its ilk) I think it's fair and an awesome challenge.  As long as we don't have PC chimera/hydras running about.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Yeah.  I intended the powers to be rather strong, but I figured they were "Creature Features" that PCs weren't likely to grab.  I also tried to make sure that they were prohibitively costly (multi-headed attack is, at a minimum the same cost as Evocation and you can do a lot more with Evocation since all it really is is a spray attack with a couple powers and some minor bonuses so it's really only powerful when you start adding lots of heads).

[InFerrumVeritas]

Hydra
High Concept: Mythic Multi-Headed Monster
Other Aspects: Hero Killer; Almost Impossible to Kill; Not a Fan of Fire; Highly Poisonous Blood
Skills: Fists+5, Weapons+4, Endurance+4, Athletics+5, Survival+3, Intimidation+3, Presence+2, Might+3, Alertness+3
Powers:
Poisonous Breath Weapon-5 (Acid)
Venomous Claws-4
Multi-Headed Attack-7 (at least, at first)
Hydra’s Regeneration-6
Mythic Regeneration-6
Catch (Decapitation)+3
Aquatic-1
Stress:
Physical 0000(000)
Mental 00
Social 000
Notes:
The Hydra represents an incredible physical challenge.  It is virtually impossible to kill and can regenerate practically any part of its body (including its famed ability to sprout two heads if one is cut off) unless all of its heads are removed.  At first, it attacks and defends at Epic (but the more heads are cut off, the higher this goes).  It isn't afraid to attack multiple targets at once, trying to poison on the first round with either its breath or bite. 

Multi-Headed Attack [-Varies]: -3 initially
Requirements: Must have high concept relating to having multiple heads.  Must have a way of attacking with each head (Claws and/or Breath Weapon)
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons
Effects:
Multiple Targets: You may make a spray attack with your fangs and/or breath weapon against a maximum number of targets equal to the total number of heads you have.  Fangs (Claws) must be used against adjacent targets, but breath weapons may be used either against adjacent targets or targets one zone away.  You make a single roll (either Weapons or Fists, whichever is higher), but apply the different weapon properties of each type of attack. 
Multiple Minds at Work: You gain a +1 per extra head to all attack and block rolls. Venomous Assault [-2 (one time, not per head)]: If you have Venomous claws (or a Poisonous Breath Weapon), you may opt to place a POISONED aspect on the target upon a successful spray attack instead of dealing stress.
Cost: -3 for two heads, -2 for each additional head

Hydra’s Regeneration [-6]:
Requirements: Mythic Recovery, High Concept relating to being a Hydra
The More the Nastier: You gain one additional stress box for each head you have.
They Keep Coming Back:  Each time you take enough stress to take you out (before applying consequences) in a single exchange, you are decapitated. You may take consequences to reduce this stress, but you still lose the head.  Each time you are decapitated, you grow two new heads.  These heads grow at the start of your next turn.
Catch: The Catch for this power is cauterization.  It must be done before the heads sprout.  If the initial attack could cauterize it (fire attacks for instance), you don't sprout the heads.  Otherwise, the cauterization can be done as a maneuver (so long as your opponent has a way to do so), but must be done before the new heads grow.
This functions like a stacked catch.

[Wolfwood2]

I might resist the temptation to give these monsters Fists 5.  I feel like it's more in-genre if they're incredibly dangerous if they connect, but not quite _that_ hard to dodge (or to hit, for that matter).  But if they do manage to hit, watch out!

[Sanctaphrax]

Not such a fan of these two, I'm afraid.

Basically, I just don't like the custom powers.

Multi-Headed Attack has a good spray attack effect but also includes a tacked-on skill bonus. I'm not sure if you meant it to benefit defences or not. There's currently no particular reason to actually make spray attacks with it.

Hydra's Regeneration is just plain clunky. I don't understand exactly how it works.

Also, I'm not really sure what the exact effect of the catches are supposed to be or how you got their values.

PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.

[InFerrumVeritas]

Not such a fan of these two, I'm afraid.

Basically, I just don't like the custom powers.

Multi-Headed Attack has a good spray attack effect but also includes a tacked-on skill bonus. I'm not sure if you meant it to benefit defences or not. There's currently no particular reason to actually make spray attacks with it.

Hydra's Regeneration is just plain clunky. I don't understand exactly how it works.

Also, I'm not really sure what the exact effect of the catches are supposed to be or how you got their values.

PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.

Catch Values:
Nemean Lion Physical Immunity Catch+4 (It only protects against one type of damage, so +2 there, it is very easy to research so another +2).  I figure the Herakles myths are about as easy to get ahold of as Dracula.

Nemean Lion Toughness Powers Catch+4 (Again, its easy to research and basically anyone with 20 min in any library could gain access to the information so +2 catch there, suffocation is something that anyone could reasonably get access to via strangulation, drowning, etc so I gave it another +2 although I could see an argument for that only being a +1 due to the difficulty of weaponizing something like that against a close combat monster)

Chimera Catch+4 (It is very easy to research this one as well so I gave it a +2.  Then lead is very easy to come by and weaponize so another +2 there).  I know I said ingested lead, but a simple maneuver (Aiming into open mouth) covers it.  In the ancient world, I'd probably have made it smaller, but most bullets are lead.

Hydra's Decapitation Catch+3 (Because of the amount of damage that you need to hit with to satisfy the Catch, I only gave it a +1.  It is, however, stupidly easy to research how the Hydra was killed, so another +2).

Basically for most of these monsters, their stories will be and have been told for thousands of years.  Their weaknesses and vulnerabilities, if they aren't already known, can easily be researched (Disney movies, books at the library, Wikipedia), so the Catches will all pretty much have a +2 at least (if you know you're fighting a Nemean Lion, you'll be thinking about ways to cut off its air before you even leave the house...ditto for how to make the Chimera literally eat lead and how to take a Hydra's head off without it growing back).

How would you model having multiple heads (I want them to be able to reliably attack multiple opponents in a single exchange but don't want them to really be able to make multiple actions) and the way Hydras regenerate?  A lot of the monsters' threat comes from having multiple heads (especially with the Hydra).  It's not something DFRPG modeled within the rules yet is something which fits the flavor of the game.

[Sanctaphrax]

Well, just because the mythical monster died a certain way doesn't mean that it is necessarily vulnerable to that thing. So I'd call most of those +1 for researchability. Also, needing to invoke an aspect created through maneuver in addition to using a certain type of weapon doesn't seem easy to me at all. That means you can only attack every second turn.
 
Anyway, here's my attempt at Multiple Heads/Limbs. I made it a bit broader, in case someone wants to play a 10-handed Hindu Scion or some such thing. It is intentionally not useful against a single target, but that's easily changed.

Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
Dismemberable [+1]. (Requires Excellent Coordination) Each consequence that you take removes the effects of one purchase of Excellent Coordination until that consequence heals. If this reduces the effects of all of your purchases of Excellent Coordination, remove the effects of this power entirely.
Hydra-Style Recovery [-2]. (Requires Dismemberable and a Recovery power) Whenever you use your Recovery power to negate a mild consequence, you gain the efffects of two purchases of Excellent Coordination until the end of the scene.

[devonapple]

Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.

So, is this sort of a generic substitute for adding extra "heads" and the "Multiple Minds at Work"? Or was "Multiple Minds at Work" removed to make it less useful against a single target?

[InFerrumVeritas]

Well, just because the mythical monster died a certain way doesn't mean that it is necessarily vulnerable to that thing. So I'd call most of those +1 for researchability. Also, needing to invoke an aspect created through maneuver in addition to using a certain type of weapon doesn't seem easy to me at all. That means you can only attack every second turn.

Fair enough.  I suppose I could reduce those things based on the fact that many of these need maneuvers to set up (although I still think it is very easy to research at least one effective way to kill these monsters using the catch and thus it is worth the +2 as per the description of the Catch in YS).  
 

Anyway, here's my attempt at Multiple Heads/Limbs. I made it a bit broader, in case someone wants to play a 10-handed Hindu Scion or some such thing. It is intentionally not useful against a single target, but that's easily changed.

Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
Dismemberable [+1]. (Requires Excellent Coordination) Each consequence that you take removes the effects of one purchase of Excellent Coordination until that consequence heals. If this reduces the effects of all of your purchases of Excellent Coordination, remove the effects of this power entirely.
Hydra-Style Recovery [-2]. (Requires Dismemberable and a Recovery power) Whenever you use your Recovery power to negate a mild consequence, you gain the efffects of two purchases of Excellent Coordination until the end of the scene.

Thank you. I both like and dislike parts of this.  I like the way you treat the attack (it is more general) and you bonuses and costs make more sense.  However, I dislike the way you treat the decapitation and recovery.  While slightly clunkier, I feel that my model (with some refinement, of course as I do know it can be improved upon) represents it better.  For instance, the Hydra has to be killed by removing all of its heads and keeping them from growing back (unlike other monsters in this myth the way to kill it is explicitly stated as the only way although one interpretation was that it was that you had to remove the single immortal head).  And it is impossible to take as many mild consequences as the Hydra is supposed to be able to recover from (even with stunts and mythic recovery you are still looking at less than the "countless" heads the Hydra had).  

Still, I want to playtest this creature and see how it works out.  I think the others are fine.  I'll report back.