New Weaponry Stunt

[citadel97501]

Hello all,

I was looking through the home-brew stunts, and I noticed the Reading the Lines of Fire stunt, which provides a +2 when dodging guns.  So I was thinking what about a stunt that specifically gives you a similar bonus but against weaponry.  I am not sure if the stunt is balanced as it may be a bit to broad, but considering the other feat applies to an entire skill, this seemed legitimate as well. 

It could be rather horrifying in the right hands, such as someone with a few of the stunts from the home-brew list. 

Lacera (Its Italian for riposte, name is still up for grabs.)
-Your skill when dealing with other weapons is legendary, and you receive a +2 to your skill when defending against Weaponry attacks.

[Tedronai]

I'd be more comfortable with '+2 when using the Weapons skill to block attacks in melee'

[Belial666]

Some of the custom stunts appearing in the Homebrew section are stronger than single stunts should be. Reading the Lines of Fire is too strong for a standalone stunt. As a stunt that follows "Shot on the Run" (using the guns skill for dodge provided you either have a gun or it either works against guns attacks) it would be OK.

Similarly, your stunt would work well once you already had Footwork or a similar stunt for Weapons. Otherwise, a +2 vs weaponry attacks could be justified by a Shield Training stunt that works when carrying a shield or similar.


In short, mortal stunts are a) limited to +1 offense or +2 other bonus, b) must be somehow limited and c) must have a justification (be something a mortal could conceivably do via a skill)

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd be totally OK with this stunt.

It would by default only work against melee attacks, since that's how Weapons defence works.

So, Belial, what's the problem with Reading The Lines Of Fire?

It's +2 to a non-offense trapping, it has a significant limitation, and it makes logical sense for a mortal.

Only working against guns seems like a significant restriction to me. That'll cover maybe half the attacks an average character faces.

If you have a problem with anything else on the stunt list, please tell me. I'm always looking to improve it.

[citadel97501]

I wrote the stunt out so that if someone took something like The Foot Work stunt (lets call it blade work), that it could then be used against people throwing knives or something else at the character, and if their opponent used a stunt to use a different skill then it wouldn't work. 

Thematically I was thinking more along the lines of a master duelist, who has been trained to deal with other swordsmen.  However I didn't want to stop someone from dealing with a swarm of mooks. .

[BumblingBear]

A simple solution would be to model a mortal stunt into a supernatural ability to make it more powerful.

This could be thematically justified for a scion of a war god, for instance.

[Sanctaphrax]

Noooooooooo!

If you do that sort of thing, you make stunts worthless to supernatural characters. That is not a good thing.

[Tedronai]

Noooooooooo!

If you do that sort of thing, you make stunts worthless to supernatural characters. That is not a good thing.

Claws.  Echoes of the Beast.  Pack Instincts.  Spider Walk.  Supernatural Sense.  Cloak of Shadows.  Marked by Power.  Lawbreaker.  Refinement (for specializations).

[citadel97501]

Noooooooooo!

If you do that sort of thing, you make stunts worthless to supernatural characters. That is not a good thing.

I must agree with Sanctaphrax here, Stunts are cool, in fact I personally would rather that we had more stunts rather than some of the crap-tastic powers that I see.  Claws, I am looking at you.

[BumblingBear]

I must agree with Sanctaphrax here, Stunts are cool, in fact I personally would rather that we had more stunts rather than some of the crap-tastic powers that I see.  Claws, I am looking at you.

Well, we can agree to disagree I suppose. 

I don't see why any supernatural creature 10 refresh or higher would have any stunts.

Stunts are specializations that people/creatures have to overcome obstacles or be more powerful.  If you can already shrug off rifle rounds and turn into mist, what use do you have for stunts?

[Sanctaphrax]

@BumblingBear: Not to be rude, but you are flat-out wrong if you say that stunts are not useful to supernatural creatures.

Stunts are extremely useful for the many things that powers don't cover. An optimized character would do well to invest in a stunt or two. And I like it that way.

Stunts are specializations and extensions of one's mundane capabilities (skills). Like skill points, they never stop being useful.

@Tedronai: Some of those are good examples, others aren't.

Regardless, the point is that new stunts can be made freely while new powers can't. Therefore, stunts are useful to the majority of characters.

If -1 powers are made as casually as stunts, then that fact changes and stunts become only for Pure Mortals.

Which is lame, because stunts represent mundane skill and that should be useful to everyone.

PS: Strength and Speed provide a truly incredible number of stunts worth of effect. But to buy them, you need to take the whole package. You can't just take the grappling part of Supernatural Strength for 1 refresh. That's a major balancing factor for them. It's the same sort of thing, here: options are a form of power.

[evileeyore]

Well, we can agree to disagree I suppose. 

I don't see why any supernatural creature 10 refresh or higher would have any stunts.

Stunts are specializations that people/creatures have to overcome obstacles or be more powerful.  If you can already shrug off rifle rounds and turn into mist, what use do you have for stunts?

I could see Martial Arts and other Fist Stunts and Might Stunts being devestating in the hands of a WCV in full kung-fu mode.


I could list out more instances where Stunts are situationally better than 1 Refresh powers... but really why?  Powers are good because they spread a bit more, more generally appicable.  Sunts often bring a slightly higher bene, but in more restircted situations.

[Tedronai]

Regardless, the point is that new stunts can be made freely while new powers can't. Therefore, stunts are useful to the majority of characters.

Depends what you mean by 'made freely'.  Powers require a bit more justification than stunts, sure, but I'd suggest that the ever-growing list of homebrew powers on this very forum would suggest that a significant proportion of the fanbase feels reasonably 'free' to create new powers.  You, yourself, have had a bit of a hand in the creation of that list, if I'm not mistaken.

[Sanctaphrax]

Powers can be made, but not freely. They have to stand up to a lot more scrutiny then stunts. 

And one of my criteria for a good power is that it isn't a supernatural stunt.

PS: You just reminded me that I've been planning to make a master list for homebrew powers.

[BumblingBear]

Ultimately, all of this stuff is up to the veto or go-ahead of whichever gm is presiding at whatever table is being played at.

But I think a +2 to swords as a supernatural power inherited as a scion of a war god is underpowered for a power, and overpowered for a stunt, so it defaults to a power.

Consider:  Claws is -1 refresh, but gives a +2 weapon fists attack /any time/.  The book mentions that weapon abilities that require weapons - items that can be lost, stolen, broken, left behind, etc should be more powerful than fists stunts.

I think that -1 refresh for a +2 weapons skill for swords is balanced, because it only works for swords, doesn't count as a stunt (so has to be a supernatural character) and it can /easily/ be taken away from a character.

In fact, an opponent with any weapon that is 4 shifts or higher, if they were to state they are directly attacking the sword as a maneuver and then invoke it for effect, I'd rule that sword broken.

::shrug::

Compared to wizards at submerged level being able to throw around 30 shifts of power in a myriad of ways, I just don't see a point in quibbling over weapon stunts/powers.

I personally think some of the most nasty powers in the game are those that affect the mind.

I have a PC in my submerged campaign who has a stress track 10 boxes long.  He is very hard to hurt physically.  But against a wizard firing a lance of mind-melt, or a BCV doing the brain voodoo, he will be like putty.