Multiple Heads

[InFerrumVeritas]

So, I'm currently writing up a bunch of monsters from classical mythology (specifically the 12 Labors of Hercules, although I'll do more after that and post them all on here when I'm done).  However, I'm running into a snag.  

Many monsters in these myths have multiple heads.  I'd like a way to model that.  Specifically, I'd like these monsters to be able to make multiple attacks (one per head).
Here's what I've come up with:

Multiheaded (-Varies)
Description: You have multiple heads and multiple brains which work independently of one another.
Musts: Must have Claws (for fangs) or Breath Weapon.
Skills Affected: Fists and/or Weapons.
Effects:
Multiple Targets: You may use Claws or Breath Weapons as a Spray Attack with a target limit based on the number of heads you have.  Claws must be used on adjacent targets, while Breath Weapon may be used on either adjacent targets or targets one zone away.  
Natural Weapon: You may use your Weapons skill when using your Claws, including when using the Multiple Targets effect allowing you to use both Claws and your Breath Weapon in the same spray attack.
Multiple Minds at Work:  You get a +1 bonus per head to your Weapons or Claws roll when making Multiple Targets spray attacks.
Cost: -2 per head with fangs, -3 per head with breath weapon

What do you think?

[sinker]

I know you modeled it after a series of stunts but honestly the cost seems a little high for what practically amounts to a +1 per target for spray attacks. I mean thematically they already have justification for spray attacks (because thematically they already have multiple heads), and the natural weapon trapping is interesting, but not really more powerful (if I'm understanding properly that the claws and breath weapon wouldn't stack but apply to different targets as appropriate).

[InFerrumVeritas]

I know you modeled it after a series of stunts but honestly the cost seems a little high for what practically amounts to a +1 per target for spray attacks. I mean thematically they already have justification for spray attacks (because thematically they already have multiple heads), and the natural weapon trapping is interesting, but not really more powerful (if I'm understanding properly that the claws and breath weapon wouldn't stack but apply to different targets as appropriate).

Cool.  I thought so too, but I figured I'd go for too high rather than too low.  So would you say a -1 per additional head is fair for cost then?

Now I just need to figure out how to do Hydra's multiplying heads...

[sinker]

Yeah, 1 per head seems fine.

[Crion]

Cool.  I thought so too, but I figured I'd go for too high rather than too low.  So would you say a -1 per additional head is fair for cost then?

Now I just need to figure out how to do Hydra's multiplying heads...

Think you could tack on Multiplying Heads to something like Mythic Recovery? Let's say that unless The Catch (Fire/Cauterized Wounds) is met, the head regrows (recovery) and adds a new head to the mix? I'm thinking of 3+ Refresh, but I could be wrong.

I'm also not digging the requirements of claws and breath weapons, as not every multi-headed monster will have these things. Just putting that out there.

[sinker]

I'm also not digging the requirements of claws and breath weapons, as not every multi-headed monster will have these things. Just putting that out there.

They would need to have some sort of natural weapon, which would likely be represented by claws or breath weapon. Otherwise there's no justification to make spray attacks (as there's no justification to make attacks at all). I suppose one could re-skin this to represent multiple arms or tentacles and then you would have justification to do spray attacks with fists or mundane weapons.

[Crion]

They would need to have some sort of natural weapon, which would likely be represented by claws or breath weapon. Otherwise there's no justification to make spray attacks (as there's no justification to make attacks at all). I suppose one could re-skin this to represent multiple arms or tentacles and then you would have justification to do spray attacks with fists or mundane weapons.

I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple heads, multiple eyes and minds to focus, which means more targets to hit. Intelligent beings with multiple heads can argue wielding multiple ranged weapons aimed at multiple targets, or being able to better saturate an area with fire (i.e. a "spray attack"). You can also argue that there are other advantages to having multiple heads, but that's up to the GM, after all.

Also, I have to ask: would having multiple minds in this case alter the Mental Stress track, or is there a "central" brain involved here that takes it all? And since the Hydra is being mentioned: how would you state that the head was actually removed in order to allow the next one to grow? Just curious is all.

--Crion

[devonapple]

I think this power may also want to require a High Concept or related Aspect relating to this feature.

[sinker]

You really could just personally remove the requirement, but I would argue that without extra hands (or automatic weapons) there's going to be a severely limited amount of benefit.

I was just thinking about other possible benefits. Would it get multiple alertness rolls, or maybe just a flat bonus to alertness per head past the first one? As for mental stress that'd probably depend on the creature. I suppose the easiest way to represent that would be with a mental version of the toughness powers.

[devonapple]

I'm alright with removing the Claws/Breath Weapons requirement as well. Even being able to use multiple mundane weapons/guns this way is a cool ability to have.

[sinker]

Of note Inferrum I just realized when I was thinking about bonuses that you might want to change it to
Multiple Minds at Work:  You get a +1 bonus per extra head to your Weapons or Claws roll when making Multiple Targets spray attacks.

[Crion]

You really could just personally remove the requirement, but I would argue that without extra hands (or automatic weapons) there's going to be a severely limited amount of benefit.

I was just thinking about other possible benefits. Would it get multiple alertness rolls, or maybe just a flat bonus to alertness per head past the first one? As for mental stress that'd probably depend on the creature. I suppose the easiest way to represent that would be with a mental version of the toughness powers.

Even with two hands, one set of eyes focusing for each weapon, spraying ammunition into an area shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend, especially since there is already a stunt that that's you spray an area even when you don't have a fully automatic weapon.

I was also thinking of the Alertness rolls and things along those lines. Would this also impact things like Investigation (Two Heads Are Better Than One and all that)?

As a final thought: why would it be easier to have it as a Toughness power? I can see it as not as easily effecting the brain (since there are multiple brains to be concerned with), but "taking out" one head is a rather dramatic thing, or turning one head against another seems to be a valid tactic. Any thoughts?

[devonapple]

As a final thought: why would it be easier to have it as a Toughness power? I can see it as not as easily effecting the brain (since there are multiple brains to be concerned with), but "taking out" one head is a rather dramatic thing, or turning one head against another seems to be a valid tactic. Any thoughts?

Those effects could easily be done by Compelling/Invoking an Aspect related to the multiple heads, which was the reason I wanted to link it to a High Concept/other Aspect. Players could tag the Aspect to get bonuses to certain effects, or Compel it outright to say that the multi-headed creature spends the next few turns arguing with itself (requiring a Discipline check or something similar to snap out of it).

Likewise, the creature itself could Invoke its multi-headed Aspect a variety of ways: reduce a Stealth check to zero when trying to Ambush the monster, or just Compel that a given opponent's Ambush fails outright; gain a simple bonus to an Investigation or Alertness roll (and this Power could already add a +1 to any rolls to which multiple heads would be an asset).

[Sanctaphrax]

Suggestions:

-The same mechanic could work for extra arms.
-I see no reason to limit this to Claws and Breath Weapon.
-Letting you use Claws with Weapons seems a bit tacked on. Plus, Breath Weapon can be used against people in your zone, so what's the point?
-I think that a bonus to each separate attack in the spray might be appropriate. It encourages larger spray attacks, which is a good thing.
-Looks slightly overpriced.

PS: Would you allow a spray attack with only one target?

[devonapple]

PS: Would you allow a spray attack with only one target?

No, but I'd allow a +1 to attack that target simply because both heads are attacking in concert with different weapons/appendages/etc. That could easily be an Invoke of an Aspect instead (for a +2).