Wyld Magic and more - My take on Magic Sponsored by the Erlking

[sinker]

As for his prey not being able to hurt him....  I call Bull$h1t.  Per system, theres a few things that can hurt anything.

#1 any item or creature with the power: all are equal under god.
#2 soulfire
#3 any other plot device power or supernatural heavyweight 
#4 any PC with a comparable refresh toa supernatural heavyweight, after all teh Dresden Files is all about exceptions and rarities or the novels would be boring.  There is no reason the main characters of a chronicle should be any different.

Yes those things would bypass any toughness powers awarded from the Erlking since they are powers/situations that bypass toughness powers. How is that relevant to that specific catch?

[ways and means]

 

Just my opinion.  I like the smaller lesser court idea.  That you and many don't is awesome, we'll likely never game together.  If we do, you'll have to deal with it then, for now.  I accept your position.  

I will say that him beign a hunter and nothing more/nothing less makes him a little one sided, too black and white and in turn...boring.

As for his prey not being able to hurt him....  I call Bull$h1t.  Per system, theres a few things that can hurt anything.

#1 any item or creature with the power: all are equal under god.
#2 soulfire
#3 any other plot device power or supernatural heavyweight  
#4 any PC with a comparable refresh toa supernatural heavyweight, after all teh Dresden Files is all about exceptions and rarities or the novels would be boring.  There is no reason the main characters of a chronicle should be any different.

1- This is because god is the ultimate heavy hitter, so the power only works in my mind if it is being powered by an absolute power
2- Soulfire doesn't help against Physical immunity it only effects the toughness powers,
3- Some supernatural heavy hitter can't hurt each other which dosen't matter as they are unlikly to fight
4- If a PC can access the catch for a phsically immune enemy it can hurt it, or use mental stress instead but just being strong isn't a justification for bypassing a catch.

I also think fairy granted toughness powers work against iron at least in the case of the knights, the trappings of the summer courts  catch refer to fire, life etc rather than iron which is a trapping of Faedom as whole rather than any of the courts. I think the fairy swords themselves are made with iron which shows that at least for powerful practitioners of fairy magic iron can be overcome. As for the Erlking I allways think of him as the unnofficial king of the wild fae rather than autumn and so would have the iron catch and possibly a catch to both summer and winter or a catch to neither of them.  

[Richard_Chilton]

The Nevernever is a big place.  If you want you can make up with kingdoms that aren't run by fairies but are run by things a bit a like fairies.

Kingdoms that they own kings and queens who might want their own champions.  Or ones established by the old gods where anything from a myth can be found.

The Grumpack's Knight* could easily be modeled after the summer or winter knight.

Richard

* = Grumpack is a word that I just made up - they have their own kingdom off in the Nevernever.

[MorkaisChosen]

Just my opinion.  I like the smaller lesser court idea.  That you and many don't is awesome, we'll likely never game together.  If we do, you'll have to deal with it then, for now.  I accept your position. 

I will say that him beign a hunter and nothing more/nothing less makes him a little one sided, too black and white and in turn...boring.

Equally reasonable- though I should point out that the idea of "hunter" has a lot of sides to it. There's the big obvious chasy animal, there's the SUDDENLY TRAPDOOR SPIDER sort of ninja antics, there's the human side of it (honour and respect for the prey), there's hunting for food and hunting to prove yourself and hunting for the sheer joy of chasing when they run... Yeah, I think there's a lot there to play with.

As for his prey not being able to hurt him....  I call Bull$h1t.  Per system, theres a few things that can hurt anything.

#1 any item or creature with the power: all are equal under god.
#2 soulfire
#3 any other plot device power or supernatural heavyweight 
#4 any PC with a comparable refresh toa supernatural heavyweight, after all teh Dresden Files is all about exceptions and rarities or the novels would be boring.  There is no reason the main characters of a chronicle should be any different.

Fair- I was being rather figurative. I agree that the Huntsman/ Erlking's Knight needs a catch, I just don't think "opponent" (or at least what he sees as his opponent) is the way to go. Mostly I was basing this on how I see him from the books, and sort of coming from his point of view. He sees people as hunters or prey. He hunts prey. And it'd be really weird if he had a vulnerability to prey.

So actually, what I see as the Big Dichotomy here is (from a more objective view) Wild versus Technology. The Erlking is all about wildness, but humanity's tamed its world now- we don't hunt our food, we raise it to go meekly to the slaughterhouse, and to me, that's anathema to everything the Erlking's about. Coming from that point of view, I'd make his Catch either something technological (and this is why Iron could be a good one, even for the Knight- it's a symbol of Making Things), or a rather more conceptual vulnerability to He Who Has Tamed Me or Bound Me or whatever. It's a bit harder to implement, but it could be interesting- fighting the Huntsman becomes a struggle to maneouvre him into a position where you can get a rope around him...

[evileeyore]

He sees people as hunters or prey. He hunts prey. And it'd be really weird if he had a vulnerability to prey.

No it wouldn't.  It would fit fine as the idea that any prey that turned to fight would be a challenge and could porve themselves worthy.  Any prey that just gets run down never had a chance.


And no, prey that only turns to fight when it's cornered isn't fulfilling this Catch.  It would need to be a hunted that took a stand beofre it ran out of options.


I'd still make it a 0 Catch though.

[MorkaisChosen]

Ah, now that's an interesting one. Getting the chance to flee and choosing not to take it...

[InFerrumVeritas]

My issue with that, though, is it seems to apply to quite a lot of the combats that a Knight of the Wyld Hunt would be part of.  +0 for a catch that is easily satisfied (and likely will be satisfied often) seems a but unfair.

[evileeyore]

My issue with that, though, is it seems to apply to quite a lot of the combats that a Knight of the Wyld Hunt would be part of.  +0 for a catch that is easily satisfied (and likely will be satisfied often) seems a but unfair.

Are you a) Hunting them and did they b) Make a Stand Before Getting Cornered?



But I'd probably use the standard Fae trappings as well, Cold Iron, Betraying a Promise Thrice Made, etc.

[MorkaisChosen]

See, other Knights don't get Iron as a weakness. If we're having Prey that Stands Before It Needs To as a Catch, I think it's fair to leave Iron off.

[Silverblaze]

Yes those things would bypass any toughness powers awarded from the Erlking since they are powers/situations that bypass toughness powers. How is that relevant to that specific catch?

I wasn't arguing the specific catch.  Was disputing the fact that Erlking's prey can't hurt him.

[Silverblaze]

1- This is because god is the ultimate heavy hitter, so the power only works in my mind if it is being powered by an absolute power
2- Soulfire doesn't help against Physical immunity it only effects the toughness powers,
3- Some supernatural heavy hitter can't hurt each other which dosen't matter as they are unlikly to fight
4- If a PC can access the catch for a phsically immune enemy it can hurt it, or use mental stress instead but just being strong isn't a justification for bypassing a catch.
  

2- True enough. Although, I wasn't operating under the theory that the Erlking would have Physical Immunity. 

3- I was reffering to the chart which ranks the supernatural heavy hitters, I assumed Knights, or Lady's may have reason to be in Erlking's path.

4- I wasn't suggesting powerlevel satisfies catch, but to disallow the main characters a chance at finding a way to bypass a catch, would be poor.  I suppose in my initial post I misworded that. apologies.

Idea for Erlking's catch/his Knights: perhaps "Worthy Prey" +0 --- Not just Prey that stands before him/her/it?
I assume Fae aren't going to be chosen as his knights, therefore...iron shouldn't be a catch.  If they are indeed fae, iron should still be applicable.

[Tedronai]

Fairy Knights being drawn from the Fae themselves defeats the purpose of having a Fairy Knight, that is, to act in matters and by means unavailable to the Fae themselves by virtue of the inherent limitations of the Fae condition.

[Silverblaze]

2I assume Fae aren't going to be chosen as his knights, therefore...iron shouldn't be a catch. 

Agreed. 100% with Tedronai

However, I could see the appeal to having one of the Erlking's goblins acting in similar capacity.

[MorkaisChosen]

Agreed. 100% with Tedronai

However, I could see the appeal to having one of the Erlking's goblins acting in similar capacity.

Doesn't that defeat the point of a Knight- someone enot bound by the restrictions all Fae (of which goblins are a type) suffer?

[Silverblaze]

Doesn't that defeat the point of a Knight- someone enot bound by the restrictions all Fae (of which goblins are a type) suffer?

In both of my previous responses I remarked that I agree with that very sentiment and that Fae shouldn't be knights.  I agree, you are correct.  They would be a bad choice, they too suffer from similar maladies to the sidhe.  

Why however a faerie lord (Mab, Maeve, Titania, Aurora/Lily, Erlking, (erlking jr?) couldn't grant the capacity to a fae is beyond me.  They seem to be capable of choosing other supernatural threats.

(click to show/hide)

Mab mentioned Thomas being a potential choice once

 Also, Erlking doesn't seem to be unable to hunt anything...mortals included; they just make crappy prey. So why he'd need a knight in the first place is beyond me.  However, if he wanted secondary huntsmen... why not use a goblin etc.  They as designed in htis thread seem to act in a similar capacity to Erlking anyhow.

I say this because in a game I play in, that very thing happened.  Goblin, with extra powers hunted our group for the Erlking.  Could have just been a goblin sidhe, I don't know.

If my logic cannot be seen, I rest my case. Apologies.