Faerie Knights and Catches

[Ala Alba]

So, in the OW entries for Slate, Fix, and the other Summer Knight, the catch for their Toughness power is "Trappings of Winter(for the Summer Knights)/Summer(for the Winter Knight)". My opinion, based on in-book anecdotes and logic, is that this is backwards. Summer Knights should have the catch "Trappings of Summer" and Winter Knights should have "Trappings of Winter". Now, I now this might initially sound crazy at first, so hang on to your britches as I explain myself.

Exhibit A: In Small Favor, Fix confronts Harry and Thomas while they are parked. There is snow outside, and it can be assumed that is rather cold weather. Fix is wearing unseasonably light clothing, and is noted to not be noticeably concerned about this. (If I remember the scene correctly.)

Exhibit B: In Proven Guilty, Lily provides protection for Harry's group from the environment of Mab's stronghold(Arctis Tor?), i.e. the extreme cold.

Exhibit C: In Changes,

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Harry acknowledges that despite being Winter Knight, he has no protection from the cold.

Now, what does this show us? That the Summer Knight has no trouble enduring the winter cold, that the Winter Knight is not protected from the cold, and that Summer magic can protect other people from the cold.

This makes sense. You cannot easily fight fire with fire, nor cold with cold. While it should be a simple matter for Fix to use his Summer Magic to keep himself warm, how can he use magic related to fire, heat, and growth to easily keep himself cool? If the Winter Knight went up against the Summer Knight and attacked him with Winter's Magic, the Summer Knight should be able to counter the cold, ice, and decay with his own heat, fire, and growth.

On the other hand, knowing that the Knights' power is granted by another higher power(the Queens), what possible reason would they have to give the Knights resistance to their own power(assuming they even could)? There is no reason. On the other hand, providing protection from the opposing court's themes makes a lot of sense and would serve to make the Knights more effective.

In conclusion, the Knights of the Faerie Courts should have the trappings of their own Court for catches, as they are explicitly and implicitly not resistant to them.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I actually agree. 

I think Summer Magic should be good against Winter Monsters and Winter Magic good against Summer Monsters (thus, it's a more lethal battle when they go against each other). 

However, the Summer Knight should be weak against Summer (he is made to fight winter and represent in the mortal realm and thus Winter Magic and Iron SHOULD NOT be a problem for him).  Same logic for Winter Knight.

It even makes sense that the Fey would make their emissary (who doesn't share their weaknesses) less effective against them personally but more effective against their enemies.

[MorkaisChosen]

I think the discomfort aspect and the actual wounding aspect need to be taken seperately. It seems obvious to me, at least, that Seelie Magic can keep you warm (Evocation Manoeuvre: Comfortably Warm) and Unseelie keep you cool, but that's not the same as being seriously hurt by concentrated cold.

I see your argument about the Queens doing it, and if they were completely free to do exactly what they want, they'd probably do that- but consider that Fae magic may simply be unable to work like that. Look at it this way- in becoming Summer Knight, you have a little chunk of Summer's heat put inside you, and become like a Summer fae. That fire's at your core, it can keep you going when mortal slings and arrows would hurt you- but the icy chill of winter leaches that heat out and leaves you helpless...

Likewise the iron point. Sure, in a perfect world, the Summer Knight wouldn't be vulnerable to iron- but there are limitations on what even the Queens of Faerie can do. If all Fae magic is vulnerable to iron, then they simply won't be able to protect their Knights from it.

Finally, I'm not entirely sure the Knights are created to fight the other Court in a straight-up slugging match. I think they're supposed to be a little more complex than that- serving the will of their Court in ways the Fae are bound not to; I need to read Summer Knight again, but it seems that the Fae of the Courts can quite happily fight each other, they just normally don't because it's a cold war sort of situation.

[tymire]

Would also note that your Exhibit C may not be correct.  Remember that Harry didn't get all his powers at once, they came as he needed them to defeat the red court.  So he might not have gotten that power yet.  Besides do you seriously think the winter queen would make it where her knight couldn't feel cold?  Now it may not actually ever hurt him, however I would think she would want him to feel it ALL the time.  Otherwise you could take it for granted....

[Tsunami]

Exhibit C: In Changes,

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Harry acknowledges that despite being Winter Knight, he has no protection from the cold.

I think this has

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nothing to do with the winter Knight being vulnerable to cold...

It's just Harry being bashed by fate. Again.

[Richard_Chilton]

Um, I've read Changes, but there's a sticky on the top of this forum that says not to use spoilers here.  There's even a separate forum to talk about the game in relation to spoilers, and spoiler tags to black out things.

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Reading some of the text above, I'd almost think that Harry has some relationship to the Winter Knight beyond what he had in Small Favors.

Richard

[zenten]

Um, I've read Changes, but there's a sticky on the top of this forum that says not to use spoilers here.  There's even a separate forum to talk about the game in relation to spoilers, and spoiler tags to black out things.

Is Changes stuff spoilers anymore?  After all, it's been out for over a year, and the paperback is out now.

[Richard_Chilton]

To be honest, I'm not sure.  The books and the game have differences references.  I usually tag everything after Small Favors - because that's when the game ends.

Richard

[InFerrumVeritas]

Um, I've read Changes, but there's a sticky on the top of this forum that says not to use spoilers here.  There's even a separate forum to talk about the game in relation to spoilers, and spoiler tags to black out things.

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Reading some of the text above, I'd almost think that Harry has some relationship to the Winter Knight beyond what he had in Small Favors.

Richard

Um...In that same thread you reference it says that if you use a tag, you're okay.  He did.  Also, Changes is in paperback and has been out over a year so it's not even something NECESSARY to tag, but because it was the last book, it's probably a good idea too (the paperback hasn't been out over a year and I know I only read them in PB unless a friend has the HC). 

[Roxy Rocket]

If your toughness power derives from faerie magic it makes sense that cold iron pierces it like all faerie junk. If Summer's tools are so poor against winter fae and their job is to counter them, why would their tools be ineffective? Same thing reversed.

The mortal knight tends to wield mortal weapons, iron based weapons. But if the summer and winter magics did not pierce the opposites so would the rest of the fey. Bane or no, each court would have to find a way to wield iron because they must assume the other side would.

Seems to me that the less dangerous option of throwing 'power' at each other is the only thing that keeps the courts from ruining faerie long term. Imagine if all the guns in the world fired depleted uranium rounds instead of lead.



I'm aware toot toot flits about with iron weapons but Harry's employment of the wild fey is still hugely unconventional.

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He is a drug dealer to tiny faeries after all.

[Sanctaphrax]

I like this idea. I'm not sure about its canonical support, but that's alright because I don't really care about that.

[sandchigger]

While Toot does, indeed, "flit about with iron weapons", he never actually handles the iron portions. They're all wrapped in plastic or rubber or something else between the iron bits and his delicate little fae hands.