About Kemmler...

[Richard_Chilton]

There's a thread in another forum called "Questions for Jim" - and I just posted to it.  No, Jim Butcher doesn't actually use it a queue for answering questions, but the various people who go through his interviews often chime in with "this was answer in the Q&A at <link> at around 4:32." or similar things.

Anyway, here's what I posted:
Here's a question:
Why didn't Kemmler become a Freehold Lord?

I'm sure that the Red Court (planning their war with the White Council), the White Court (who hate the White Council), and the Order of the Blackened Denarius would have signed off on it - giving Kemmler the protection of the Accords while he worked on his ascension.

I have couple of theories, but I'd really like to hear if Jim has an answer.

The theories?
a) All humans with mystic power are already covered by the Accord and are the domain of the White Council, or
b) Kemmler was too egotistical to think he needed protection (even after he died a couple of times), or
c) it was on his to do list and he never got around it to.

Someone has suggested that Mab wouldn't let him sign, but if she let a bunch of Fallen wearing Human skins (aka the Order of the Blackened Denarius) join then I can't see why she wouldn't let him join.

Richard
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If Jim does answer that question, then we'll have an answer.  If he doesn't, then it's useless to debate the subject.  If someone happens to go to a con where Jim's at, then you could ask him the question and see what he says.  Or just ask a general question about independent wizards operating outside the White Council's control.

Anyway, if someone has something to add we should add it here so the other thread can go back to being the "which type of powerful being would you like to be" one it was meant to.

Richard

[Tedronai]

There's also Plausible Theory D: Kemmler did sign on to the Accords as a Freeholding Lord, but the White Council managed to find the slightest legal technicality (assuming they didn't have / wait around for a more solid justification) from which to declare war.

[citadel97501]

One of the other options, is that Kemmler was already a member of the White Council, and so wasn't allowed to become a freehold lord.  I think this is probably a reasonable excuse since it would also explain how he was able to develop so much power before the Warden's went after him the first time?

Internal Politics are one of the major weaknesses of the White Council, think about some of the crap the Merlin/Morgan tried with Dresden. 

[crusher_bob]

Even if he signed o, there is nothing to stop the council from just declaring war on him and then killing him. 

[evileeyore]

My honest to goodness geuss:


Jim Butcher never thought about it.   

[sandchigger]

E. The Unseelie Accords postdate Kemmler's experimentations.
F. As a mortal wizard, he falls squarely under the White Council's purview and thus even were he a Lord they would be well within their rights to off him.

[Richard_Chilton]

We can debate this forever - unless Jim weighs in.

So if anyone here was planning to go a con where Jim's doing a Q&A it would be nice to hear if Jim has an answer for this one.

Richard

[Samael]

E. The Unseelie Accords postdate Kemmler's experimentations.
F. As a mortal wizard, he falls squarely under the White Council's purview and thus even were he a Lord they would be well within their rights to off him.

The mortal spellcasters are within the Council's perview because they are powerful enough to strong arm said spellcasters to make it so. Had Kemmler gotten off a Darkhallow (as in Dead Beat sized one) he would be out of there authority simply because he would be too powerful for them to even have a chance in hell of being controllable.

[sandchigger]

Yes, but they were able to take him down before he managed that. Had he been a freeholding lord, there would have been no political fallout over this as 1) he would be dead and 2) he was a mortal wizard and thus under their umbrella.

[Tsunami]

I think Kemmler was not interested in the Accords, he was not interested in peaceful coexistence, he was only interested in power, killing and more power and more killing.

So, why didn't Kemmler become a Freeholding Lord?

"A wild guess? He was freaky insane. Plus evil."
-Bob The Skull-
_{The Original question Bob answered was a different one, but i think the core of the Answer applies here as well.}
 

[Richard_Chilton]

Yes, but they were able to take him down before he managed that. Had he been a freeholding lord, there would have been no political fallout over this as 1) he would be dead and 2) he was a mortal wizard and thus under their umbrella.

But if he was a freehold lord then he wouldn't be under their umbrella - which would be the point.

As far as political fallout, I'm sure the others who signed the accords (Red Court) would have loved to have the White Council fined or otherwise punished.  Less because they might agree with someone like Kemmler and more because it hurts one of their enemies.

Richard

[Bruce Coulson]

Why would Kemmler waste the time and energy attempting to become a Freeholding Lord?

Either he will complete his Ascension (in which case such petty politics will be beneath him), or (not that it would happen, of course) his enemies will kill him.  In either case, his political status becomes a moot point.

And time spent getting the approval and signatures necessary to become a Freeholder under the Accords is time taken away from the vitally important task of gaining magickal power.

A better question might be, why haven't any of Kemmler's successors tried to gain such status?

[evileeyore]

Why would Kemmler waste the time and energy attempting to become a Freeholding Lord?

Either he will complete his Ascension (in which case such petty politics will be beneath him), or (not that it would happen, of course) his enemies will kill him.  In either case, his political status becomes a moot point.

This is true.  Once he becomes Ascended the only reason to agree to the Accords would be if he felt threatened by a large enough coalition of enemies.

Which, I strongly doubt he'd ever feel threatened.  Godlike Cosmic power and all.

[Sh33p]

Going by some throwaway comments in the novels (the Ukrainian shapeshifter, one or two guys in India, etc) and the would-be Freeholder in the Nevermore setting, it's not entirely unthinkable for a mortal spellcaster to become a Freeholding Lord. They just have to be savvy as all get-out and powerful enough to back it up. Or vice versa. Harry could probably pull it off, given his insane power growth and his laundry list of allies and enemies. He'd likely be the most broke-ass Lord to ever live, but hey...

[Roxy Rocket]

I think Tsunami had it right with the Bob quote.

Plus, they're Queen Mab's treaty. People that sign lightly then muck around with the letter of the law immediately becomes her enemy right? The White Council can defend mortals under the treaty so he's not, like, diplomatically immune.

My Dumb Theory:
Maybe being a member of the accords means you can always be contacted by the other members through those magical official channels. I mean, come on, your enemies could just look you up like you listed yourself in the yellow pages under Wizard or something.