Social Powers

[Samael]

Here are some stuff I put together for social characters, they are akin built akin to the Inhuman/Supernatural/Mythic types given that I rationalize them as both social and physical are just forms of combat, making them comparable to each other.

Here is toughness/recovery simply scale them up, change the name and bump the prices for Supernatural/Mythic Versions. Now I imagine that social armor like anything has a chink to it, represented by a Catch like normal toughness. When you take this power pick an issue or secret that would utterly humiliate your character in a social issue. An example might be a characters family which would be a +3 catch (+2 to come by, +1 to discover), or a straight laced character might have a criminal record to influenced with they want to keep hidden, etc. Price the Catch appropriately

[-2] Inhuman Socialite You are incredibly tough to harm in the realm of of the Social Arts.
Effects.
Hard to Disgrace - You have a natural Armor:1 against all Social Attacks.
Hard to Manipulate - You have two extra social stress boxes.

[-2] Inhuman Social Grace You are able to shrug off the social machinations of others more easily then most.   
Effects.
Total Recovery - You are able to recover from social consequences with no other excuse but time. Thematically represent more material consequences as you pushing money, making deals, and generally cajoling various people to get rid of this. An example of such a material consequence is a White Court Vampire being put on the Sex Offender Registry List.
Fast Recovery - Out of combat you may recover from social Consequences as if they were one level lower in severity. So you recover from moderate Consequences as if they were mild, etc. Consequences reduced below mild are always reduced by the beginning of the next Scene.
Socially Skilled - Presence never restricts Rapport to making a First Impression.
Shrug it Off - Once per scene, during combat, you may recover from one mild social consequences as a supplemental action.
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Still working on a version of Social Strength ( I can't think of an equivalent of Speed), what do people think?

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd move the Socially Skilled trapping of Inhuman Social Grace to the Speed or Strength equivalent.

I'd also disallow these powers entirely. Not because they are bad, but because they devalue stunts.

Don't let that discourage you, though. Not everyone has my stunt obssession.

Here's my take on Strength and Speed. Both are very rough and not exactly correspondent to their physical counterparts.

[-2] Inhuman Force Of Personality You have an incredibly strong impression on people.

+2 stress with Intimidation attacks.
Always have the context of power for Intimidation.
Presence always gives a +1 when modifying another skill.
+2 to Performance when playing to an audience.

[-2] Inhuman Glibness The gift of the gab is strong in you.

+4 to social initiative.
+1 to all trappings of Rapport including defense, +2 when hiding emotions.
Negate 2 points of believability penalties to Deceit.
Closing Down is not obvious.

[Samael]

But stunts /do/ suck compared to powers, I mean a Pure Mortal could have the equivalent of Inhuman Toughness but it would cost him an odd 3-4 refresh, point for point powers are just plain better.

[Sanctaphrax]

There are some situations in which stunts are better than powers. Powers just don't apply to a lot of situations. There are exceptions, but generally not of the kind that invalidates stunts.

Also: stunts offer the power of versatility. An optimized character will often have a mixture of stunts and powers.

Really, stunts don't suck at all. They're just less efficient at broad-spectrum physical boosts, less effective at stacking, and less capable of really weird things.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I feel that social powers should virtually exclusively be the realm of stunts.  I know they are called "Mortal Stunts" but that doesn't mean non-mortals can't take them.

It can be said that stunts suck compared to powers.  That doesn't mean that you should make them suck more.

[Samael]

Um... case in point Marked By Power, that is effectively 4 stunts in one (Giving bonuses to Rapport, Intimidation, Empathy, Presence), Flesh Mask/Spirit Form which benefit Rapport and Intimidation respectively, the Emotional Vampire powers which can perform maneuvers and inflict consequences which can benefit social rolls. Of and lets not forget Living Dead and Hulking Size

It is show clearly that their are LOTS of powers which benefit social, so the idea of them being exclusively belonging to the realm of stunts is kind of silly in my mind....

[MorkaisChosen]

Yeah, there are powers that affect social things, but think about all those examples. They're "This supernatural power, which has that consequence socially." How are you explaining Inhuman Socialness?

[Samael]

The supernatural otherworldlyness of the Fae, the decorum of a representative of one of the big D dragons, the scariness of a scion of a Demon?

[ways and means]

Most of the fae stuff I would consider mental rather than social (for example a lot of Fae myths involve Fairies with incite lust and awe and fae are know to be fond of compulsions) the same with dragons mental presence attack.

[sinker]

Additionally a lot of that could be well represented by them having very powerful social skills, having a lot of aspects that are applicable to social situations and also being huge/scary/powerful.

[Sanctaphrax]

The game as-is doesn't have a lot of magic that's socially applicable. There are stunt-like bonuses here and there (Hulking Size, Flesh Mask) and there's Marked By Power.

Supernatural beings are not far ahead of mortals in the social arena. What's more, a character has to take stunts in order to be really good socially.

Changing those things is a big deal. It will lead to significant changes to the internal logic of the game.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it, but you should at least think hard about whether or not it's something that you really want.

It isn't what I want, but clearly Samael disagrees. And that's fine.

[InFerrumVeritas]

It isn't what I want, but clearly Samael disagrees. And that's fine.

Sure, but he asked what we thought.  So I told him what I thought.  If he wants to do things differently in his game than I would in mine, that's totally cool.  What works for his group will be different from what works for mine.  But if he posts something for criticism, I'm allowed to offer criticism.

[Sanctaphrax]

I assure you, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Just trying to be polite.

[evileeyore]

The game as-is doesn't have a lot of magic that's socially applicable. There are stunt-like bonuses here and there (Hulking Size, Flesh Mask) and there's Marked By Power.hat I want, but clearly Samael disagrees. And that's fine.

Incite Emotions seems to be the most directly applicable Social Power, so that's where I'd take my cues from.

I disagree that adding Social Powers to the game would cause significant changes to the game logic.  Yes, vanilla DF isn't a Social style game, however FATE lends itself well to that style of play.  Certianly the ST should contemplate the power balances carefully, but to be timid?  No, I say go for it.

Now, all that said, I wouldn;t go the same route as "just making Social version of the Physical Powers".  I would at the two Psychic abilities Dominate and Incite Emotions and work backwards from there.  Both are very heavy handed at what they do, very obvious and unsubtle.


Hmmm, I'll think about this over the next few days and tear them apart, it's what I'm good at.  Putting them back together... not so much.

[Sanctaphrax]

Personally, I don't view Incite Emotion and Domination as social powers. I view them as mental ones.

Domination can't even be used in social combat. Incite Emotion can, but it's usually better as a mental attack.